[Denverd0n]

Wonder if those professional or school driver's education programs cover that?

Our daughter learned to drive when we lived in Colorado. Up in Steamboat Springs (at least, at the time) the Bridgestone tire company ran a winter driving school. They had a track setup with tall snow berms all the way around. The track itself was a mix of snowy, relatively dry, and icy conditions. They provided the cars, and if you lost control you just slid into a snow-berm -- no big deal. We decided it would be a good idea to take our daughter to it, and my wife and I both went through it also. Despite having learned to drive in Nebraska, in some pretty hairy winter conditions, I learned a lot more than I expected.

One thing they did was have the cars all rigged with a switch that could turn off the ABS system. One of the exercises was doing emergency stopping both with, and without, the ABS system working. It was pretty eye-opening. No matter how hard you tried, there was no way to beat the ABS system at stopping.

Anyway, the long and short of all of this is, yes, there is at least one driving school out there where you get to experience what full use of your ABS system feels like.

Just checked, and the place is still in operation... Home

Now for the fun part of the story. One evening, after class, we were sitting in a nearby pub with one of the instructors. He said that the most fun he had ever had at the school had been just the previous week to when we were there. A couple of teams of Navy SEALS had come to learn winter driving. Unlike their normal class, though -- where the objective is to learn how to drive safely, and in control, in winter conditions -- the SEALS basically wanted to learn how to go as fast as possible without killing themselves. They brought their own Humvees with them. I guess it was a pretty thrilling week, including several rollovers, with one of the Humvees getting pretty seriously banged up.

In any case, if you want to learn about winter driving, I can recommend the school. And Steamboat is a great little town to visit anyway.

 

[RadTek]

…. In preparation to say this I just looked at a model state farm insuring agreement. I did not see an intentional acts exclusion in the collision portion.

I think your missing the “Exclusions”.

SF Texas Policy Form 9843A

First of all…Disclaimer…The opinions expressed in this post are my own and not necessarily those of State Farm. I do not represent nor speak for the company. 😬

PG 33 Exclusions under Physical Damage Coverages.…Comprehensive/Collision. (D or G)

.
Exclusions
THERE IS NO COVERAGE FOR:
1. ANY COVERED VEHICLE THAT IS:
a. INTENTIONALLY DAMAGED; OR
b. STOLEN
BY OR AT THE DIRECTION OF AN INSURED;

Similar language under Liability Property Damage. (A)

I‘m confident you know this…but not everyone might. It’s a way of mitigating fraud. You can’t go out to your car with a ball peen hammer, turn your hood into Swiss cheese and expect to get a new hood.

But, as I say, and you argue as well, there’s extenuating circumstances in this scenario that should prompt a good claim professional into action as an advocate for the insured to override following policy language to a “T”.

I’d pay out for the damage this insured incurred to his/her covered vehicle. (Provided he has that coverage). For the reasons you illustrate. This isn’t an intentional act to damage the insured vehicle. This is an attempt to escape that resulted in unintentional damage. 👍

 

[Anduril]

Aside from the policy language, the issue is whether the insurance company would want to take their chances in court.
Here, I think they'd just pay the claim. (?)
My opinion.

 

[RadTek]

I never worked in challenged claims. I can’t really speak in that regard. When I was taking claim calls and you’d say “I’m calling my attorney!” Or “I’ll see you in court!” That was music to my ears. I’d immediately say “I’ll transfer you to someone else who can continue to discuss your claim.” When you got belligerent and protested saying do not put me on hold again, I’d simply say “I’m not an attorney. I‘m not qualified to discuss legal matters. Hold please!”

With some amount of satisfaction I might add. 😬


I hated claims. Couldn’t wait to cycle out of that pressure cooker.

 

[Shark1007]

I don’t think there’s any question the carrier would lose that debate in court. Intent would have to apply to the desire to damage the car. This guy’s intent was to save his life and he did not make a conscious decision “hey, I think I’ll damage my car.” I can get a new paint job.

 

[RadTek]

I’m far from arguing with you shark. I’m agreeing. What I’m saying, is from an insider’s perspective, it shouldn’t go to court. The question was asked. I’m just trying to give an answer from my point of view. 👍

 

[Shark1007]

I don’t perceive anything as an argument. None of this discussion stuff is personal.The way I see it under that exclusion is that the insurance carrier, to win, must demonstrate that the insured intended to damage his vehicle. In other words there must be some specific intent to cause the damage usually for some nefarious reason like getting a new paint job.

 

[MisterEd]

I think those collision avoidance systems can be overridden if you floor the accelerator. Pretty sure they can also be switched off to if a person keeps it together enough to do it.

You are correct, at least in my Subaru hitting the gas overrides the vehicle's attempt to brake.

 

[Derrick1971]

I don’t perceive anything as an argument. None of this discussion stuff is personal.The way I see it under that exclusion is that the insurance carrier, to win, must demonstrate that the insured intended to damage his vehicle. In other words there must be some specific intent to cause the damage usually for some nefarious reason like getting a new paint job.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Intentional but with proper intent. If someone swerves into a parked car to avoid a child in the road nobody would be talking about intent. This seems like the same thing. Causing acceptable damage to avoid unacceptable damage.

Funny thing is he certainly avoided a larger claim if the vehicle was stolen. Probably avoided a claim to his health insurance and and maybe even a claim to his life insurance. If he has all of those through the same company they'll think he's a hero.

 

[Ronnie948]

Go someplace and park the car, Take a bus to your area and call the Police and report your car stolen.
Leave ignition key in the ignition and say you must have forgot to remove it when you parked in your driveway.
Ronnie

PS: This is something I would never do but other people do stuff like this all of the time.