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I did mean a 50 cal, butttttt....found an interesting fact about a real 60 cal.....
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U.S. MACHINE GUN T17E3 AIRCRAFT .60 SN# 5
Manufactured by Frigidaire Division of GM, Dayton, Oh. - The cal. .60 T17E3 machine gun is a recoil-operated, air-cooled, belt-fed weapon. The belt is of the metallic link disintegrating type. The gun can ben prepared for either left-or right-hand feed. Firing is by means of a solenoid, but a manual release for the sear is also provided. The weapon is provided with a shock-absorbing adapter which also serves as a front mounting. The gun can be charged by an electric charger mounted in the cover, by an auxiliary charger fastened to either side of the receiver, or by a manual charger assembled into the cover. Cyclic rate of fire: 600 rpm. Barrel is missing on this specimen.

Markings:
Plate: PART NO. T17E3/TYPE 5/FRIGIDAIRE DIVISION/GENERAL MOTORS CORPORATION. 5 on numerous small parts.

Notes: CALIBER .60 T17E3 - Beginning in September 1943, attention was concentrated upon the manufacture of seven T17E3 guns with both mechanical and electrical ignition. The electrical ignition mechanism was modeled upon that of the German
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20-mm gun. A program was also initiated for the development of a bolt with the sear forward. It was expected that this, together with electrical ignition, would permit synchronization of the gun when either electrical or percussion primed ammunition was used.
On 15 December 1943 because of increased interest by the United States
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Navy, this order was increased to ten guns.
On 16 November 1943, Frigidaire was requested to develop four auxiliary gun charges to be used as a standby device in case of the failure of the electric charger.
Because of a requirement placed with the Ordnance Department by the Navy Bureau of Ordnance for delivery of 2,500 caliber .60 aircraft machine guns with auxiliaries and spare parts in 1944, limited procurement of the T17E3 was initiated 2 December 1943 and approved 16 December 1943. This procurement was immediately begun even though preliminary service tests of the T17E3 had not been held. It was recognized, when the decision was made to rush the preparation for manufacture of the caliber .60 machine gun at Rock Island Arsenal, that the expenditure of large sums of money would be required to put changes in the design of components into production. However, it was felt that a major portion of the tooling for the gun would ultimately be usable, and that the plan followed would save priceless time in getting fully developed guns into the hands of the Army Air Force and the Navy Department. Rock Island Arsenal was commissioned to make these guns. The only unit to fail consistently, so far, was the bolt head. Redesign of this unit was immediately undertaken. The breech ring, firing pin, bolt head buffer springs and a few minor components had broken but it was believed that improved metallurgy for these components would satisfactorily increase their life.
This gun weighed 135 pounds, including recoil mounting adaptor, electrical charger and solenoid, and feed mechanism. The rate of fire was 600 rounds per minute, and the muzzle velocity was 3,500 ft/sec. The gun was 92 inches long and had a maximum trunnion reaction of 3,500 pounds.
At the request of the Army Air Forces the original procurement was increased to 5,025 guns by Ordnance Committee action on 23 December 1943. Twenty-five guns of this procurement were allotted to the Ordnance Department for experimental purposes.
Two T17E3 machine guns manufactured by Frigidaire were delivered to Aberdeen Proving Ground 29 December 1943 for test. The breech ring on Gun No. 2 broken after a few hundred rounds, severly damaging the gun. Gun No. 1 successfully fired several thousand rounds. The gun fired erratically with frequent and long hesitations. These hesitations were later found to be caused by stubbing of the bullet point against the breech face of the barrel. A 25-round burst was considered good. During January 1944 a research project was established with the Battelle Memorial Institute, Columbus, Ohio, for the purpose of making recommendations on heat treatment and otheDuring February and March 1944, Frigidaire engineers decreased the weight of the bolt to five pounds, increased the diameter of the bolt head roller trunnions to .656 inches, removed the link stripper from feedway since it was found unnecessary, and added a cartridge hold down lever and a feed pawl control lever to the feedbox. The feed pawl control lever prevents a round from being fed into the feedway by the feed pawls while another round is already over the feed slot in front of the holding pawls. This is accomplished by a linkage attached to the feed pawl control lever which lifts the feed pawls and prevents them from engaging the feed belt when a round is already over the feed slot and forward of the holding pawls. The cartridge hold down lever positions the round to the feed slot and holds the round down as the bolt head drives it forward.
In April and May 1944 this gun was tested and it fired 100 rounds at a uniform cyclic rate without a stoppage. The cyclic rate was approximately 600 rpm. Malfunctions were reduced to one percent and breakages to 0.3 percent. On 13 March, regular weekly conferences were initiated by the Small Arms Development Division, Research and Development Service, to integrate all information on the progress of the project. This conference was attended by representatives from Field Service, Industrial Service, Office of Air Ordnance Officer, Navy Bureau of Ordnance, Frankford Arsenal, and occasionally by representatives from Aberdeen Proving Ground, Rock Island Arsenal, and Frigidaire. In these meetings all changes in the gun design were discussed and transmitted to the Industrial Service, which in turn sent the information to Rock Island Arsenal. The minutes of these meetings, which were held weekly until 15 January 1945, bi-weekly until 27 August 1945, and monthly thereafter, are filed in the Small Arms Development Division, Research and Development Service, and in other Ordnance establishments.
A general description of the T17E3 gun is as follows: It consists of a receiver supporting a cover, breech ring and barrel. With the receiver slides a bolt and bolt head. In the cover is a cam tube with a helical slot cut in it. Riding within the cam tube, guided by the helical slot, is the drive bushing with incloses one end of a drive spring. On the outside of the came tube near its forward end is cut a spur gear which engages the rack that operates the feeding mechanism. When the cover is closed, a stud on the drive bushing engages a raised portion of the bolt and in operation the bolt, bolt head, and drive bushing travel together. The firing pin is fastened in the front of the bolt and projects into the bolt head. The charger retracts the drive bushing which in turn pulls the bolt back on the sear which is located at the rear of the receiver. When the sear is released, the bolt goes forward, the bolt head is rotated and locked by the cams on the breech ring and bolt. As the bolt head rotates, it retracts in the bolt. This causes the firing pin to protrude, ready to fire the primer. A buffer spring and a buffer plate are mounted in the buffer block at the rear of the receiver. This assembly arrests the reward movement of the bolt assembly and with the assistance of the drive spring returns this bolt assembly to battery during automatic fire.
THE ELECTRIC RELOADER - The electric reloader developed by the General Electric Company for the T17E3 gun is an apparatus designed to replace the manual reloading mechanism in the T17E2 gun with equipment that will clear stoppages automatically and reload the gun when required. The standard 27.5 volts DC current for airplanes is used as the power source for the operation of this charger and its controls. This reloader includes all parts and assemblies necessary for its operation. The cable and cross pin in the cover (used in manual reloaders) are replaced by the reloader drive unit whiThe adaptor group houses a ball bearing thrust nut which rides on the lead screw. As the lead screw is rotated by the motor the adapter group is driven to the rear along the screw, picking up the drive bushing and retracting the bolt until it engages the sear. This operation also compresses the drive spring. The adapter group is then returned to the front of the lead screw ahead of the bolt by reversing the direction of rotation of the motor by means of a telltale and switch located in the receiver.
The electric operation of the sear is accomplished by the firing solenoid which is bolted to the back of the buffer block. THe armature in the solenoid is attached to a lever arm which actuates the link bar which in turn is fastened to the sear mechanism. When the solenoid is energized, the link bar is moved to the rear. This depresses the sear and frees the bolt, which is forced forward by the drive spring firing the gun.
The motor on the drive unit is series wound with a reversing field and is rated 0.4 HP at 10,000 rpm at 25 amperes and 24 volts DC.
BASIC BARREL DEVELOPMENT - Development work on the gun barrel has been carried on by Springfield Armory and Frankford Arsenal. The initial requirement for the T17 gun called for a quickly detachable and replaceable barrel. This feature was taken by Frigidaire from the German MG 151 design. Springfield Armory made the first barrels and integrated the barrel design. After the initial barrels were fired, Springfield Armory worked on improvements in metal strength characteristics and heat treatment of barrels. Frankford Arsenal developed the original data on bore diameter and depth of rifling and determined that 590 grains of power (IMR 4996) would yield an instrumental velocity at 78 feet of 3,500 +/- 30 ft./sec. with a 1,200 grain projectile. In March 1944 a groove diameter of .604 + .002 and a land diameter of .588 + .002 with one caliber of free travel were adopted reduced the peak chamber pressure approximately 2,000 pounds per square inch and the initial muzzle velocity by approximately 100 ft./sec. The standardized depth of rifling of .007 inch to .009 inch was an increase of .004 inch in depth over the first barrels used.
At approximately the same time, it was desired to increase the capacity of the cartridge case and to make it more nearly cylindrical to facilitate manufacture and stowage. Accordingly, modified chambers and cartridge cases were designed and tested. The old cartridge (T1) was characterized by a .050 body taper, the new (T22) by a .035 body taper. The changes in the chamber and rifling caused some unavoidable delay in barrel production, which was soon overcome.
BORE COOLING DEVICE - Research on a bore cooling device for the caliber .60 machine gun was actively pursued at Purdue and Frigidaire. The average barrel life for this gun was 400 rounds when fired in 25-round bursts with a 2 minute cooling interval between bursts. In February 1944, the fundamental studies were completed at Purdue and in March 1944, Research and Development projects were accepted by the Bendix Aviation Corporation and the Diesel Engineering and Manufacturing Corporation. It was found that a bore cooling device for this weapon was highly desirable to increase the barrel life.
Concurrently other methods of increasing barrel life were being investigated and before a satisfactory bore cooling device was obtained, the life of the barrel had been considerably increased by the use of chromium plating and stellite liners. Because of the success of the liner and plating program, the bore cooling project soon became of minor importance.
FIRST BOLT FOR ELECTRICALLY PRIMED AMMUNITION - During April 1944, two T17E3 machine guns were completed at Frigidaire and fitted with bolt assemblies to fire electrically primed ammunition. These bolt assemblies were adapted from the bolt used in the German MG 151 to fire electrically primed ammunition. The electrical connector between theThis experimental work was continued at the Caliber .60 Machine Gun, T39.
HOLY SMOKE ! Now that's what I call a real informative reply ! Thank You Mike for not only educating me , but many others on here that may not have known about this particular weapon and it's history !! Thanks Much Mike (y) (y) (y) 馃嚭馃嚥馃嚭馃嚥
 

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Very interesting! So we had 1911s made by Singer and 60 caliber machine guns made by Frigidaire. I wonder if you left the bolt open, would a light come on?
I see Roger that you haven't lost your quick sense of humor ! I will admit it took me a few seconds to think about a gun with a light ? DUH :unsure::LOL::ROFLMAO:
 

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HOLY SMOKE ! Now that's what I call a real informative reply ! Thank You Mike for not only educating me , but many others on here that may not have known about this particular weapon and it's history !! Thanks Much Mike (y) (y) (y) 馃嚭馃嚥馃嚭馃嚥
Well it sure was a surprise to me also.....glad I made the mistake of saying 60 cal now.
 
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Well it sure was a surprise to me also.....glad I made the mistake of saying 60 cal now.
No real mistake Mr. Mike , some things are just meant to be IMO ..Just ask me , as I have made my share of typo's . I still haven't come across any pencils that didn't have an eraser on them . This unless one is extremely mistake prone :unsure:

I reiterate , It still was an extremely educational posting and damn glad you took your time to go through it All So Thoroughly (y) (y)(y) 'G'
 

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I read a FB post by Luis Valdes which sums up the special session:

Rep. Sabatini to initiate the call for Constitutional Carry among the legislature.
For the special session to be called in Florida, 20% of lawmakers from both chambers will have to petition the Secretary of State calling for the session.
If that benchmark is reached, the Secretary of State will conduct a formal poll of both chambers.
If three-fifths of lawmakers in both chambers agree, it鈥檚 at that point a special session will be called.
Republicans have the numbers to act with or without Democrats signing on.
It is now sink or swim for Republican in the legislature that claim to be pro-gun.
So basically it seems we literally have the numbers to get this done. The Dems can't stop it by sheer party line voting.

It'll be the ultimate litmus test of:

  • The Republicans in the Florida Legislature
  • The people who vote them in and keep voting them in

DeSantis has already said he'll sign a CC bill if it reaches him. For better or for worse, he's done all he can without exceeding the authority of his office.

So, basically we're gonna see how many Republicans actually adhere to the standards they promote.
 

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I know, right? It's sad really. I mean I'm an optimist but I don't see some of them doing what they are supposed to.

We have a great Governor, and that's a lot for me to say since I loath government workers for the most part. But unfortunately Florida is still very much a purple state. We talk a really good game though.

People come down here and think we're basically Wyoming in terms of gun laws. When actually it can be argued we have the worst gun laws of any red state.

  • Bump stock ban before the Trump one took effect
  • Red flag law
  • CWFL that doesn't even exempt you from the FDLE check
  • Waiting periods for non-CWFL holders

I mean compared to say New York, we have it good, but it could be far better.
 

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I know, right? It's sad really. I mean I'm an optimist but I don't see some of them doing what they are supposed to.

We have a great Governor, and that's a lot for me to say since I loath government workers for the most part. But unfortunately Florida is still very much a purple state. We talk a really good game though.

People come down here and think we're basically Wyoming in terms of gun laws. When actually it can be argued we have the worst gun laws of any red state.

  • Bump stock ban before the Trump one took effect
  • Red flag law
  • CWFL that doesn't even exempt you from the FDLE check
  • Waiting periods for non-CWFL holders

I mean compared to say New York, we have it good, but it could be far better.
Well all we can do it Hope ! There are enough : 1/2 the glass is "Empty" people and that fixes Nothing and is Telegraphing Defeat Before it even happens .

Nothing is Perfect and You Cannot Compare N.Y. N.J. MASS Commiefornia Or any other Democrat state to Florida at all . How do I know , Because I happened to have lived in The PRNJ Is How ! Down With The 'RINOS'

Keep The Faith My Friends . 'Nay Sayers' Only Help The Other Side . It's About Time for Us Now (y)(y)馃挭 馃嚭馃嚫 馃嚭馃嚫馃嵑馃嵑馃嵒
 
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When actually it can be argued we have the worst gun laws of any red state.
Not even close. Texas is far worse. A lot of states are worse than FL. Many of them have no-gun signs that carry the weight of law and a duty to inform.
 

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Not even close. Texas is far worse. A lot of states are worse than FL. Many of them have no-gun signs that carry the weight of law and a duty to inform.
^^^This!

I had to go sit for a licensing exam Monday. Stupid signs! Huge building in a not-so-great part of town. Had to leave my valuables in the car. What makes it worse is anyone watching saw me get to the entrance, see the stupid signs, hightail it back to the car and try again. 鈥淎w gee, I wonder what he just took off and left in there?鈥 I say it all the time. Y鈥檃ll don鈥檛 want any part of signage laws.
 

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^^^This!

I had to go sit for a licensing exam Monday. Stupid signs! Huge building in a not-so-great part of town. Had to leave my valuables in the car.
I would get very tired of walking up to a building and having to turn around to "make a deposit" in my car and then trekking back to the building.
 

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I would get very tired of walking up to a building and having to turn around to "make a deposit" in my car and then trekking back to the building.
It鈥檚 a nightmare. And you just know there鈥檚 scumbags who watch for that kind of thing. If I know I鈥檓 going somewhere that鈥檚 posted, the gun stays at home. Constitutional carry my @$$!
 

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I see news Newmax Crawler Blurbs today that says DeSantis will push for Constitutional Carry.....

Well, maybe at some point. Might be an easier thing to do once re-elected and he doesn't have to run in FL again. We'll see.

But I hope he's aware of the issues involved! NO OC!
 

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Not happening. And that's fine
 
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Sorry, But I don't really see anything wrong with the concealed carry the way it has been and still is,
Easy to renew,
Easy to carry your firearm almost everyplace you go.
No consequence if A Lib A Turd idiot sees you gun and reports you.
Lets you buy a handgun and take it home with you.
Go to a place like the WAFFLE HOUSE and ignore the No Guns Sign without breaking a stupid law.

My Flame suit is on so you can go at me because I don't think the new open carry law is needed or any good for us at all in FLORIDA.
What is really needed is a law that will allow you to carry your protection in any state in the Union with "NO" exceptions.

RONNIE
 
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the new open carry law is needed or any good for us at all in FLORIDA.
It's not an Open Carry law. It's a Constitutional Carry bill. There's a difference. To my understanding... Constitutional Carry addresses CONCEALED carry without any special license. Open Carry is an entirely separate kettle of fish, which has its advocates (ahem... "wandering pier fishermen"). But, it's not being proposed in a bill as far as I know.
 
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