[racer88]

+ Before 1968, you could walk in a hardware store, buy a gun and walk out without any paperwork done.
There were millions of guns sold that way...

I did it in 1979 as a 16 year old. It was a local department store. I don't recall the process, exactly. But I'm pretty sure I gave them the cash, and they gave me the shotgun with the only "paperwork" being a receipt.

I regularly bought ammo at the local Western Auto hardware store.

I posted about that shotgun in a thread: https://www.floridaconcealedcarry.c...ught-my-very-first-firearm-so-excited.139633/

 

[gandrfab]

After THEY finish 80% kits they will have to close all automotive shops and home workshops.
GRIZZY sells specialized computer controlled CNC lathes and mills.
A real gunsmith can make a gun with just files.

Most and even more so under the age of 35 may think of files as on a computer or papers stored in a cabinet.

May I specify? A real gunsmith can make a gun with just manual hand tools.

 

[Shark1007]

There was a Rexall drugstore in Apopka where we would eat lunch. I would run over to the next section, pick up a 22 rifle and bring it back and beg my dad to buy it for me while we ate our burgers.

I tried for years to raise enough money to buy a Herters 401 Power Mag mail order starting at age 12.

 

[Derrick1971]

+ Before 1968, you could walk in a hardware store, buy a gun and walk out without any paperwork done.
There were millions of guns sold that way...

And nowhere near the gun violence we have today.

 

[mike_1950]

I don't recall anyone suggesting that. It's one of MANY ways an illegal person can get a gun.

But, anyone who thinks that restricting the Rights of peaceful law-abiding citizens is the way to stop criminals is a F***ing idiot.

Picking this VERY small contributor out for special treatment and exception from our 2A Rights is not just an idiot... he or she is a treasonous tyrant.



Of course.

It is safe to say that this unconstitutional measure will do NOTHING to curb the acts of criminals. It WILL increase the costs for citizens who want to exercise their 2A Rights.

It will also drive many hobbyists to 3D printing, which of course, brings us right back to where we started. What are they going to do? Serialize spools of raw nylon? What about machinists who can (and have been for eons) mill a receiver from a ZERO PERCENT block of steel, aluminum, or plastic?

Idiots. The lot of them and the lot of those who mindlessly and reflexively clap like seals

Come on racer....you are smart enough to read my ENTIRE post and understand what I am saying. There are two ways of looking at this...and both are WRONG. Biden is the one trying to say 80% firearms are the majority of guns used by criminals.....HE is wrong...as any half way intelligent person knows, criminals obtain guns thru many more ways than buying an 80% and sitting down to build the damn thing!!!! How ever.. many pro 2 A gun owners just will not accept the true fact there are criminals using 80% builds as a loophole to bypass obtaining a firearm thru gun dealers and using them in crimes. ... They may not be the ones building them but 80% builds are being sold to them to use. The $$$ made doing this is probably staggering in gun restricted cities and states. Now not seeing the truth in any of this does in fact make people idiots! Because both sides are narrow minded if they do not believe this is happening.

 

[racer88]

Come on racer....you are smart enough to read my ENTIRE post and understand what I am saying.

Of course. I was agreeing and expanding on the thought.

 

[racer88]

A conversation on GlockTalk inspired an idea for a poll, which I JUST posted on the Patriot Gun Builders Forum. I hope we get some participation and the opportunity to see the interesting outcome.

https://www.patriotgunbuilders.com/...0-frame-would-you-prefer-100-or-still-80.655/

 

[pod]

+ Before 1968, you could walk in a hardware store, buy a gun and walk out without any paperwork done.
There were millions of guns sold that way...

In most states yes. Unfortunately the usual suspects instituted waiting periods and judicial approval prior to that, usually because they had a problem with blacks, Irish, and Italians arming themselves.

Even after '68 in most states the paperwork was on the honor system, and it kind of worked because the FFL had and still has wide latitude to deny a sale.

It's funny though - I forget where I read it, but it's been said that we can't really expect anti-2A states to completely flip to pro-2A barring some form of judicial cataclysm. Even then it's a kicking-and-screaming situation. Heller was an awesome decision, but realistically the anti-gun states only moved to a may-issue regime, while circumscribing the permits with so many conditions.

NYSRPA vs Bruen if it goes our way (and it most likely will) will push the bare minimum to shall-issue but again, the anti-gun states are already prepping for the loss and making carrying a gun in their jurisdictions to be even more circumscribed. Like New York lawmakers are pretty much proposing that every public patch of dirt be declared a "sensitive" area, or some nonsense.

What I'm seeing though is a widening in the pro-2A/anti-2A gap. Fully half the nation by state is now Constitutional Carry, where nearly no states were 30 years ago. Meanwhile anti-2A states have racked up more and more restrictions without much in the way of successful legal challenge as the same time period went on. California was a shithole for gun rights in 1992. And it's even more so today. Georgia was OK for guns in '92 and now it's pretty damn good.

 

[Shark1007]

Very well reasoned response, thank you. Gun control in Florida started after the Civil War and when finally challenged to the Florida Supreme Court one of the comments made by the court was that to their knowledge a black person was never issued a permit. The challenge didn’t occur until I think sometime in the late 1940s. Change was very slow.

When I talked to an ATF agent recently their position seems to be that they are not curtailing a person‘s right to have a hobby and sand and polish to their hearts content building on a P 80, they’re just requiring a serial number. Their position is that it just gives them more of a chance to trace a weapon and potentially solve a crime. She said that she bet those who are squealing the loudest would be taking the other side if one of their family members was the victim of a crime and a pistol with no serial number was left behind and law-enforcement told them “there’s nothing we can do to trace this”

I don’t know who is ultimately right or wrong on this issue but I think I understand both sides.

 

[Derrick1971]

The real irony here is that most people wouldn't complain about serial numbers and few people would even worry about registration if the government didn't have a long history of violating out 2A rights. Now, after everything they've done against us AND everything they've done FOR criminals, they want to say it's for the better good? And we're supposed to believe that?

The fact is the government created this "gun culture" where we distrust anything they do. A registration system, if done properly, would reduce crime but that ship has sailed. They've proven time and time again that their motivation is to violate our rights and let criminals run wild. To me it's like letting a child molester run the daycare because they have an idea to keep the kids "safe". We know what they're about and it's not our rights or our safety.

How many crimes would be solved AND PREVENTED if the government closed the borders, came down hard on criminals, rolled through the inner city gang controlled neighborhoods to clean them up AND encouraged lawful citizens to be armed and trained to protect themselves? Instead, the only thing they do in the name of "crime prevention" is violate the rights of lawful citizens while respecting and creating new rights for criminals. They wonder why we don't trust them and want their serial numbers all over the place?

 

[racer88]

The infringement is on our Right to build a gun from scratch. Naturally, the AFT had to define the line between "scratch" and an actual gun. They originally defined it as 80%. So, there we had it. It was a concrete line with a solid basis for abiding the law.

Now they're moving the goalposts ARBITRARILY and VAGUELY, effectively eliminating that Right.

They are further infringing our Rights by effectively instituting gun REGISTRATION. Right before our eyes, and some refuse to see it, because some think building pistols is icky and doesn't interest or affect them. They diminish and disparage the hobby with trite comparisons to "sanding and polishing." "They just want a serial number on it. That's not infringing your rights."

What if I want to "sand and polish" a rectangular block of aluminum or plastic? What if I want to melt and spray a spool of nylon into a 100% frame?

So, now the tyrants and alphabet agencies want 80% frames designated as "guns" and therefore entered into their system via serialization and 4473 checks. What about 70%? What about 50%? What about ZERO %??

None of that is hyperbole or rhetoric. It's an honest question. Where is the line NOW? Tomorrow?

The early results of the poll on my forum indicate that a majority of hobbyists will be moving to ZERO PERCENT "frames" by printing their own. Building our own guns has been legal since the birth of our nation, regardless of technology. Of course, there is also milling with old-fashioned lathes or even computerized lathes. And now we have 3D printing available to the masses. All of that technology is getting cheaper. Once you have the machine, a frame can be printed for less than $10.

So, THEN what are your tyrants going to do? Ban or register spools of nylon? Blocks of aluminum? Actually, no. Of course not.

But, here's what they WILL do: They will insist that ALL guns be REGISTERED. Any gun that is not serialized and registered in the system will be illegal. We all SHOULD know that. And we all SHOULD know what comes after registration. Every time. 100% of every instance of gun registration has ended in confiscation.

This is not a "Slippery Slope" logical fallacy. They've TOLD us they're going to do it. In no uncertain terms, they have literally said, "We are coming to take your guns."

You may not be interested in building your own guns. But, you should be VERY concerned. Because they ARE coming for YOUR guns. That's also not hyperbole or speculation. They have outright SAID it. When they TELL you they're coming for your guns, you should believe them. When they make incremental efforts towards that goal, you should believe them.

 

[Shark1007]

I guess everything in life is a balancing test. If you want police protection, you get speed limits. If you want to live in a community, you get noise ordinances.

I personally don’t see this is some giant conspiracy or move toward coming to grab everyone’s guns, that will never happen in this country. We feel so strongly about that it is constitutionally protected.

Everyone can make their own decision as to what’s right and wrong. One side believes they have the absolute right to build an unserialized pistol. With that comes the ability of a convicted murderer or person on the terror watchlist to order a kit and make their own, skirting the law.

The other side of the debate believes that to some degree, whatever that really is, it will stop unauthorized persons from obtaining guns with no serial numbers. It will stop those people setting up a business of finishing and selling pistols with no serial number at great profit. With that comes a better ability to have a greater chance at solving a crime. With that comes the requirement that people be screened before purchase which is a burden to some degree to the hobbyist who wants to build their own pistol.

Whatever side you take I respect your position.

 

[mike_1950]

Of course. I was agreeing and expanding on the thought.

+ Before 1968, you could walk in a hardware store, buy a gun and walk out without any paperwork done.
There were millions of guns sold that way...

Very true. Western Auto made a lot of money selling ammo and guns, however in 1968 I and my friends could walk down the street with a .22 to go shoot rats near the Ohio river bank in the coal yard and no one gave us a second look. It was a different era then though, my parents did not worry about some jacka$s trying to sell me drugs, no sex maniacs stalking the schools, no cry t!t students doing the mass murdering in the schools. Lack of common sense, respect for human life, dealing with adversity was less prevalent back then also. Today...have a problem with the boss, neighbor, teacher, unruly child, bully in school...shoot them is the easy way to solve the problem.

 

[racer88]

I just sent this to Senator Rubio:

You wrote to me (excerpted to not exceed the 3000 character limit in this form):
<<< The Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution states that “the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” That is why I have always supported the right of law-abiding Americans to bear arms to protect themselves and their families.

I am committed to working with my colleagues in the Senate to create a more effective system to prevent senseless gun violence, but we must do it in a way that protects the rights guaranteed by the Second Amendment.

The Congress has previously come together, in a bipartisan manner, to make our schools safer. The 2018 Valentine’s Day senseless massacre of 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland shocked the nation. It also served as a catalyst for action, and my bipartisan Student, Teachers and Officers Preventing (STOP) School Violence Act (P.L 115-141) became law just five weeks later. Within that same law, we were also able to improve the National Instant Criminal Background Check System by passing the Fix NICS Act.

And in Florida, the Republican-led state legislature and Republican governor created a system of Extreme Risk Protection Orders, which help law enforcement and families by providing the ability to temporarily prevent individuals who pose a threat to themselves or others from purchasing or possessing firearms... I first introduced S. 292 in the 116th Congress, and look forward to working with my colleagues to advance this commonsense legislation.

I will always fight to make Florida, its communities, and its schools safer, and I am confident we can do so in a bipartisan way that protects an individual’s right to own firearms as guaranteed by the Second Amendment.

It is an honor and a privilege to serve as your United States Senator. I will keep your thoughts in mind as I consider these issues and continue working to ensure America remains a safe and prosperous nation. >>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for making it abundantly clear that you pay only LIP SERVICE to the 2nd Amendment. Unfortunately, your skills to obfuscate do not exceed my cognition and ability to see through it.

Our Constitutional Rights (including the 1st and 2nd Amendments) are subject neither to the democratic process (majority rule) nor to arguments grounded in social utility (such as fallacious claims of "safety"). PERIOD.

I will bear this in mind when the next election comes around.

 

[Earl 007]

I vote against that a$$hole everytime.

 

[Shark1007]

My daughter interned with him. Most of those prefab responses like you got are prepared/sent by the interns. I think writing to him has the same net affect of sending an email to the trashcan. It’s very sad.

 

[Shark1007]

Wife and I were just talking about this and since were on the list, we got an email yesterday from Rubio. It says that his “mobile office“ will be in our area next week available to address issues regarding Social Security, veterans benefits blah blah blah blah blah. Toward the end of the email it pointed out “Senator Rubio will not be there but members of his staff will be available to discuss these issues“

What that really means is a bunch of interns will be there trained to say “I will bring that up directly with the senator” and people will leave smiling, feeling that they have a connection with their government.

 

[Ronnie948]

It all boils down to that the "CULT" that has taken control of America wants all guns gone.
Little by little over the years they have been brainwashing the sheep using TV and the news media on how dangerous guns are and how nice and safe everyone will be if nobody had a gun.
Like the true Americans say:
An armed population consists of CITIZENS
An Un-armed population consists of SUBJECTS
Ronnie

 

[Anduril]

Wife and I were just talking about this and since were on the list, we got an email yesterday from Rubio. It says that his “mobile office“ will be in our area next week available to address issues regarding Social Security, veterans benefits blah blah blah blah blah. Toward the end of the email it pointed out “Senator Rubio will not be there but members of his staff will be available to discuss these issues“

What that really means is a bunch of interns will be there trained to say “I will bring that up directly with the senator” and people will leave smiling, feeling that they have a connection with their government.

I thought "mobile office" meant the local Ritz Carlton.

 

[racer88]

For $40 each and the "AFT" deadline looming... I couldn't resist! Arrived today.
Two 80% AR-15 receivers. Actually no immediate plans to build them. Just couldn't resist buying them at a bargain price, and the bonus is that it makes liberals cry.

Suck it, Biden! 💩

Now I've just gotta load'em up in my canoe and take'em across the lake. Hope that leak I fixed in the canoe holds up this time!