Battery and CCW license

386 Views 16 Replies 7 Participants Last post by joecarry, 16 d ago

rayman

Discussion Starter · 17 d ago

Went to a gun law seminar the other night and was surprised at what a lawyer told us. She was going over a few basics and went quickly thru prohibited places and people. While explaining, she mentioned that if someone was arrested for any battery charge, or any charge that involved violence, that eventually Dept Of Ag. would send you a notice saying that your license to carry has been suspended until case is resolved, and if convicted of battery, that you would lose your license for 3 years. I have never heard that one. And she was not talking about family members as a domestic charge, cause I asked her directly. She specializes in gun law and has been involved in almost 1000 gun cases from different states. Thoughts ?

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BeerHunter

· #2 · 17 d ago

Did she mean YOU as a self-defender was arrested 1) as a result of that self-defense action for 2) aggravated battery [with a firearm] as a result of that self-defense action, DOACS would . . .??? Weah, I'm not sure I'm understanding what precisely she's talking about. However, if you were "arrested" for said self-defense action, that arrest means something is not quite right in the case of "self-defense" IMHO.

rayman

Discussion Starter · #3 · 17 d ago

BeerHunter said:
Did she mean YOU as a self-defender was arrested 1) as a result of that self-defense action for 2) aggravated battery [with a firearm] as a result of that self-defense action, DOACS would . . .??? Weah, I'm not sure I'm understanding what precisely she's talking about. However, if you were "arrested" for said self-defense action, that arrest means something is not quite right in the case of "self-defense" IMHO.

Not with a firearm - if you had a fist fight with someone and you were arrested and charged with battery, your CCW license would be suspended until case was determined. I was shocked to hear that. Even if you didn't have a firearm on you. It's about the violence , not the gun. I'm still having a hard time believing that, but she supposedly has significant experience in the this field.

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joecarry

· #4 · 17 d ago

So you lose a constitutional right because you're guilty until proven innocent? An arrest is not the same as a conviction.

I wonder what happens after July 1st then? Do they tell you that you can not possess a firearm too? Seems odd that one could be legal to possess but not be legal to carry. I think there is a misunderstanding of the conversation or the interpretation of the law she spoke of.

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BeerHunter

· #5 · 17 d ago

rayman said:
Not with a firearm - if you had a fist fight with someone and you were arrested and charged with battery, your CCW license would be suspended until case was determined. I was shocked to hear that. Even if you didn't have a firearm on you. It's about the violence , not the gun. I'm still having a hard time believing that, but she supposedly has significant experience in the this field.

As am I, but now I understand the context of your question a bit more. . .

OHEng

· #6 · 17 d ago

rayman said:
Went to a gun law seminar the other night and was surprised at what a lawyer told us. She was going over a few basics and went quickly thru prohibited places and people. While explaining, she mentioned that if someone was arrested for any battery charge, or any charge that involved violence, that eventually Dept Of Ag. would send you a notice saying that your license to carry has been suspended until case is resolved, and if convicted of battery, that you would lose your license for 3 years. I have never heard that one. And she was not talking about family members as a domestic charge, cause I asked her directly. She specializes in gun law and has been involved in almost 1000 gun cases from different states. Thoughts ?

She is correct, but it's not DOA doing it on its own, it's an order from the court that would happen in conjunction with sentencing. Misdemeanor offenses that fall under violent crime classification make you ineligible for a CWFL, and that ineligibility is not restored for three years AFTER all sentencing, parole, supervised release is completed. So you might get a year in jail for the battery, then some period of parole/supervision once released, and it's 3 years after that all ends that you can reapply.

Doesn't seem to be an automatic thing, likely depends on how much of a pound of flesh the SA/ASA wants from you if convicted. But the court has to order it, they can't do it all on their own.

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Anduril

· #7 · 16 d ago

I glanced quickly at FL Statutes 790 and did not see where DOACS could suspend the license based solely on the arrest. Or for that matter, whether being arrested (without adjudication) would constitute grounds for not issuing the license.

It might be in there, but I didn't see it.

rayman

Discussion Starter · #8 · 16 d ago (Edited)

I'm not sure its in there, I don't understand how they come up with that

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rayman

Discussion Starter · #9 · 16 d ago

joecarry said:
So you lose a constitutional right because you're guilty until proven innocent? An arrest is not the same as a conviction.

I wonder what happens after July 1st then? Do they tell you that you can not possess a firearm too? Seems odd that one could be legal to possess but not be legal to carry. I think there is a misunderstanding of the conversation or the interpretation of the law she spoke of.

She said that after July 1st, " It's now up to the permitless conceal carry to know and understand the laws, Ignorance of the law is no excuse "

Rick McC.

· #10 · 16 d ago

rayman said:
I'm not sure its in there, I don't understand how they come up with that

Too bad Roger’s gone!

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Rick McC.

· #11 · 16 d ago

rayman said:
She said that after July 1st, " It's now up to the permitless conceal carry to know and understand the laws, Ignorance of the law is no excuse "

Which is nothing new...

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OHEng

· #12 · 16 d ago

I seriously doubt it would ever come down to someone convicted of battery being left to their own devices to figure out where they stand in terms of violating weapon prohibitions. If the court is stripping those rights away as a result of a conviction, they don't keep it a secret, the convicted will certainly be told their right is suspended. Same for parole, if prohibited their parole officer is going to make that crystal clear and it will likely be in writing on the parole paperwork the person signs off on.

It's not really about license or none, it's about the act of possession of the firearm. They'll know they are not supposed to have one.

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Anduril

· #13 · 16 d ago

OHEng said:
I seriously doubt it would ever come down to someone convicted of battery being left to their own devices to figure out where they stand in terms of violating weapon prohibitions. If the court is stripping those rights away as a result of a conviction, they don't keep it a secret, the convicted will certainly be told their right is suspended. Same for parole, if prohibited their parole officer is going to make that crystal clear and it will likely be in writing on the parole paperwork the person signs off on.

It's not really about license or none, it's about the act of possession of the firearm. They'll know they are not supposed to have one.

A co-worker told me the other day that he has a friend who has a valid Florida CWL but also has multiple felony convictions.

Until now, I just defaulted to the "government can't get anything right" approach.
But now I wonder if the license were issued prior to the felonies, and the State never notified the license holder of the revocation.

BeerHunter

· #14 · 16 d ago

Anduril said:
A co-worker told me the other day that he has a friend who has a valid Florida CWL but also has multiple felony convictions.

Until now, I just defaulted to the "government can't get anything right" approach.
But now I wonder if the license were issued prior to the felonies, and the State never notified the license holder of the revocation.

Without knowing the specifics of the co-worker's friend's situation, it is highly unlikely the "friend" is a convicted felon possesses a "valid" FCWFL! There may be something that appears to be a FCWFL card issued before those convictions and still in his physical possession, but those felony convictions would render a FCWFL issued under f.s. 790.06 invalid and f.s. 790.23 makes it unlawful for a convicted felon to possess firearms, ammunition, electronic weapons, etc. Perhaps DOACS did notify him at his LKA, which is no longer his address.

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Denverd0n

· #15 · 16 d ago

Yeah, I'm with BeerHunter. I don't think your friend understands what makes a concealed weapon license valid in the state of Florida.

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Anduril

· #16 · 16 d ago

I agree.
Having even a valid license in-hand when the licensee is a convicted felon probably isn't much of a defense.

BH probably nailed it.
Guy probably had a license, then got convicted, and the revocation notice never caught up with him.
Although official records will show it "revoked" if anyone ever looked.

I had already advised my co-worker to tell his friend he shouldn't rely on the license.
If he's a felon caught in possession, well......

Reactions: 1

joecarry

· #17 · 16 d ago (Edited)

As we all know, having the physical license isn’t what counts. The only time I’ve ever had to show mine, other than purchasing a firearm at an FFL, to an officer is the once a year trip I take to the Florida State Fair. That actually has always worked in my favor as I’ve been told to go around the line and go see the deputy. I hand them the license and they call it in to see if it is valid. Usually about 30 seconds or so and I’m on my way into the fair while lines of others are standing there waiting for their turn at the metal detector. Heck, knowing this, even if I were to choose not to carry, I’d still play the game and go see the deputy and hand them the license to avoid the lines.

YMMV.

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