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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Definng the Bar Area in A Restaurant

Is there a clear definition on what the bar area is in a restaurant?

I don't sit at the bar (and I am the permanent designated driver, given that I am a Type 2 Diabetic from being in Vietnam), but I have been wondering just where the line is beyond that. There are tables and booths near the bar, and my wife likes to sit there, feeling she can get better service for meals. She likes some wine with her meal.

Is there some clear documentation (court cases, etc.) that says what bar area is here in Florida?
 

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The way i understand it is you can not be at the bar or in the bar/lounge portion of the restaurant -- dinning room is fine.
 

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This whole bar thing is a royal pain you know where. I just stay out of the bar area and the tables they have there to be safe. My problem is that sometimes the hostess will lead us through the bar to get to a table. Other times we are told to wait in the bar for a table to open up. Then there are times when we are with new friends and they decide to go to the bar to have a few drinks after an activity. If I know I am going to a bar I do not carry but many times it comes as a surprise and I usually make up an excuse for not going to the bar. What do you say to a Hostess who leads you through the bar area to get to a table? Ever been to a resturant only to find that you have no choice but to walk through the bar area to get to the tables? I have. Even been to several resturants that have their restrooms in the bar area so what are you going to do when nature calls. I do not care about open carry as much as I would like to see this bar law changed. They do not have to eliminate it. Just need to make it more practical and prohibit sitting down at the bar and drinking which I believe is their intent. Even that makes no sense since you can sit at a regular table and drink just as much.
 

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Is there a clear definition on what the bar area is in a restaurant?

I don't sit at the bar (and I am the permanent designated driver, given that I am a Type 2 Diabetic from being in Vietnam), but I have been wondering just where the line is beyond that. There are tables and booths near the bar, and my wife likes to sit there, feeling she can get better service for meals. She likes some wine with her meal.

Is there some clear documentation (court cases, etc.) that says what bar area is here in Florida?
I have not been able to find any appellate level court cases on this topic. What that tells me is that arrests for it (even in stand-alone bars) are not all that frequent.

I have been told by an Assistant State Attorney, that it is only the actual Bar that might get someone in trouble. (She was explaining this to me outside a hotel lounge when I said "I can't" to her invitation to join her for a drink! She knew I was armed.) Her explanation makes sense when you look at the actual working in the statute
any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose
"such purpose' meaning dispense alcoholic beverages.

Presumably, the legislature chose the word dispense, not serve, for a reason.:dunno

In every restaurant or bar I've ever been to the only portion of the establishment primarily devoted to dispense alcoholic beverages is the bar - that place where the booze bottles and beer taps are.

We've discussed this many, many times. You can search for those threads and read all sorts of different opinions. :argue
 

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...Presumably, the legislature chose the word dispense, not serve, for a reason.:dunno

In every restaurant or bar I've ever been to the only portion of the establishment primarily devoted to dispense alcoholic beverages is the bar - that place where the booze bottles and beer taps are.
Exactly! A similar situation exists between a pharmacist and a nurse. By licensure, only a pharmacist may dispense (give out) medication, but a nurse may administer (serve) them. When a patient is discharged from a hospital with a prescription for meds, the nurse can not legally give (dispense to) the patient the meds left over from their hospital stay. The patient must go to the outpatient pharmacy or their own outside pharmacy to get the prescription filled. This is because the nurse can not dispense or give out the meds, she can only administer them, as per his or her nursing license.

So dispensing alcoholic beverages from a bar is distinct for serving them at your table. The waitress doesn't come to your table to pick up beers and such to bring to other customers, she goes to the bar for that. Just like the kitchen dispenses the food, but the waitress serves the food at your table.

But I'm still not sure what protection this rule or law actually provides the public. You can get just as drunk and unruly at your table as at the bar. And you can remain just as sober and in control at the bar as at your table. Perhaps the law should prevent cc'ing a gun while intoxicated, or even allow for the loss of your CWP if found guilty of drunk driving, public intoxication or similar acts of alcohol induced stupidity.
 

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Most restaurant bar areas are well marked by wooden floors or table types or half walls or something. I just stay out of areas that seem to be delineated as part of the bar.

I am not opposed to walking through the bar area to get to the restroom and have done that may times as there was no choice. When a waitress tries to seat me in the bar area I just simply state that I can't for legal reasons. She can interpret that any way she wants.
 

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One of the more interesting points brought up a while back is the change in flooring.. Next time you're in an establishment w/ seperate bar and eating area ie: Chili's, look to see if there is a difference in floor covering.. May help, may not..But the advice is free....Dang Paladin..Must have beaten me by 2 seconds..:grin
 

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Most restaurant bar areas are well marked by wooden floors or table types or half walls or something. I just stay out of areas that seem to be delineated as part of the bar.
Same here. Are you sitting at the bar drinking? If the answer is no I would stop worrying about it.
 

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my opinion is that if it is a food service table its purpose is not to dispense alcohol...i will not belly up to the bar or enter a stand alone bar armed...but i have no quams sitting at a table that is there to serve me a meal...regardless of what the floor covering is....a different floor can denote a dance floor also...am i supposed to avoid those..
 

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Exactly! A similar situation exists between a pharmacist and a nurse. By licensure, only a pharmacist may dispense (give out) medication, but a nurse may administer (serve) them. When a patient is discharged from a hospital with a prescription for meds, the nurse can not legally give (dispense to) the patient the meds left over from their hospital stay. The patient must go to the outpatient pharmacy or their own outside pharmacy to get the prescription filled. This is because the nurse can not dispense or give out the meds, she can only administer them, as per his or her nursing license.

So dispensing alcoholic beverages from a bar is distinct for serving them at your table. The waitress doesn't come to your table to pick up beers and such to bring to other customers, she goes to the bar for that. Just like the kitchen dispenses the food, but the waitress serves the food at your table.

But I'm still not sure what protection this rule or law actually provides the public. You can get just as drunk and unruly at your table as at the bar. And you can remain just as sober and in control at the bar as at your table. Perhaps the law should prevent cc'ing a gun while intoxicated, or even allow for the loss of your CWP if found guilty of drunk driving, public intoxication or similar acts of alcohol induced stupidity.
However, in Florida Pharmacists, by law, can actually prescribe certain levels of meds, no doctor necessary. So, if my wife had a bar she could tell you what you were drinking AND dispense it!! :rofl
 

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Then dispensing actuallly only occurs behind the bar top and not in an area used at all by patrons. So the whole flippin rest of the building is fine using that logic.
 

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I just use common sense.
If it has hi-tops and seats at a bar it's a bar.
If it has booths it's foody place.
As for being a T-2 why can't you drink. I sure do.
Sure you can't drink a whiskey sour but light beers and straight alcohols are fine.

AFS
 

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Exactly! A similar situation exists between a pharmacist and a nurse. By licensure, only a pharmacist may dispense (give out) medication, but a nurse may administer (serve) them. When a patient is discharged from a hospital with a prescription for meds, the nurse can not legally give (dispense to) the patient the meds left over from their hospital stay. The patient must go to the outpatient pharmacy or their own outside pharmacy to get the prescription filled. This is because the nurse can not dispense or give out the meds, she can only administer them, as per his or her nursing license.

So dispensing alcoholic beverages from a bar is distinct for serving them at your table. The waitress doesn't come to your table to pick up beers and such to bring to other customers, she goes to the bar for that. Just like the kitchen dispenses the food, but the waitress serves the food at your table.

But I'm still not sure what protection this rule or law actually provides the public. You can get just as drunk and unruly at your table as at the bar. And you can remain just as sober and in control at the bar as at your table. Perhaps the law should prevent cc'ing a gun while intoxicated, or even allow for the loss of your CWP if found guilty of drunk driving, public intoxication or similar acts of alcohol induced stupidity.
But I'm still not sure what protection this rule or law actually provides the public.
Just like the rest of the restrictions (execpt inside jails and maybe courtrooms) none what so ever.

Perhaps the law should prevent cc'ing a gun while intoxicated, or even allow for the loss of your CWP if found guilty of drunk driving, public intoxication or similar acts of alcohol induced stupidity.
Please don't fall into the Anti mindset.
You can't compare driving drunk to 'carrying' a firearm drunk, maybe 'using' a firearm....WAIT we already have a law for that in place.
Drunk driving can get you CWFL revoked, once you show a pattern of behavior (multiple convivtions)
 

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To me that means the bar itself, and I take it as that. I'm there to get my grub on, not to drink.

If I wanted to drink, I'd have left my pistol at home. I wouldn't drive there nor carry there...that's for the DD.
 

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drinking has nothing to do with it...youo are allowed to drink and carry...its where you go and carry that is an issue...
 

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drinking has nothing to do with it...youo are allowed to drink and carry...its where you go and carry that is an issue...
To me, drinking and shooting don't mix. If it's a single drink with a meal (one beer, one glass of wine, or one shot of liquor)....fine, but any more and it's simply not a good idea. This is going from an understanding of the effects of alochol, not some law.
 

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This thread isn't a debate as to whether drinking while armed is a good or bad idea. It is one (of many, many on this forum) that asks basically "where can I go?"

My $0.02 is just that the "primarily devoted" means THE BAR, nothing about how high the tables are or what's on the floor. If I sit in a booth and eat dinner and the floor under my feet is different than the next room who cares? Might I become the test case???? Sure... BUT concealed is concealed no?

To the OP: Just search "restaurant bar" you'll read for hours!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks to brboyer for his clear answer. I asked the question because I had always - I got my permit in 2000 - used the phrase "No sitting at the bar while carrying".

Now I know the real reasoning.
 

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To me, drinking and shooting don't mix.
Yeah, but how often have you ended up shooting while carrying? If you're shooting, there's already a law in place for that. You can't be in manual possession of a firearm while intoxicated. Having a drink or two at the dinner table is legal.

I can't imagine anyone getting in any trouble carrying in a restaurant unless something else went wrong.
 

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Yeah, but how often have you ended up shooting while carrying? If you're shooting, there's already a law in place for that. You can't be in manual possession of a firearm while intoxicated. Having a drink or two at the dinner table is legal.

I can't imagine anyone getting in any trouble carrying in a restaurant unless something else went wrong.
Here I go opening up a BIG can of worms...

I do not believe that you should drink at all when carrying - to me it is incredibly irrresponsible. In spite of my feelings, while there is a law against using a firearm while under the influence of alcohol or chemical substances (790.151), there is an exception for self-defense. Here is the applicable part of the statute:

(5)This section does not apply to persons exercising lawful self-defense or defense of one’s property.

Again, I STRONGLY urge anyone not to drink when carrying, but the law is the law.

Jim
 
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