We need to bring back Jarts...
At a major retailer like Walmart/Target etc
You witness what appears to be an 80 year old woman being screamed at by a young male in his early 20's in one of the aisles. He forcecfully shoves her to the floor where she's obviously injured, perhaps multiple injuries [ being frail in her 80's ].
Not content with shoving and injuring her, he appears about to reengage physically, maybe he'll kick her, lean down and start beating on her face [ this has happened on the streets in the past ].
What do you believe your course of action will be?
Not content with shoving and injuring her, he appears about to reengage physically, maybe he'll kick her, lean down and start beating on her face [ this has happened on the streets in the past ].
What do you believe your course of action will be?
41 - 53 of 53 Posts
It'll be over long before a 911 call to locals has been responded to. When they arrive, that gun will no longer be visible, and when the person/s who called explain I've got the gun, the permit will be handed over and that's the end of that.For sure verbally get his attention while decisively moving in his direction, if field weapons present themselves grab one, but I'm capable with my hands-on. His response and course of action to my verbal warnings will dictate the next action. If he rushes me, it's likely having something in my hands (canned goods, coffee mug?) will not be as effective as having my hands free to formulate an appropriate physical response. Remember the main objective was to have him stop his actions towards the elderly woman, and that has been accomplished. For all you know you could turn around and run the other way making the idiot give chase to safer, more appropriate area of the store to engage physically.
One thing you have to remember, if you carry a weapon and get in a scuffle, it will be quickly exposed to everyone including your attacker. It's possible he might want to go for your weapon if he sees it, it's also likely he'll run the other way. We can all agree if the idiot tries to go for your gun is ventilating time, and if he runs the other way, well, the situation is over, call 911 and be the best witness. BUT... on the other hand you may not be aware that a bunch of patrons happened to call the cops reporting a fight and that someone has a gun, and you have to be very cognizant that if the police shows up, you may be the person they showed up for.
Thoughts?
Average response time in the US is 5-6 minutes for a 911 call. If I'm still struggling with the turd at that time, something went seriously wrong. And it still won't affect the outcome of his having his head caved in or loss of consciousness from being choked out nor will it affect anything to do with my presence there other than showing the permit.
In my state, I wouldn't even be asked for a permit, we're constitutional carry. I don't need a permit to open or conceal carry, so the merits of the summary of events is all that's necessary here.
Being drawn down on by responding leo's in some altercation? BTDT, it's when one has to keep their head about them. No more or less
As an aside to post 42 where it was stated "It'll be over long before a 911 call to locals has been responded to". If I engage with someone physically, we were taught skills to end a threat with or without weapons [ once engaged ] within 1-1.5 seconds. If it took longer that that to end the threat, we were using the wrongs skills [ hence the reason for the skills we were trained in ].
Most of it's nasty end of life stuff, but some can be toned down to not cause death [ but there's always that chance like with a Y hand to the throat etc. It's the mindset to end it that quickly, coupled with the skills to make that a reality.
Most of it's nasty end of life stuff, but some can be toned down to not cause death [ but there's always that chance like with a Y hand to the throat etc. It's the mindset to end it that quickly, coupled with the skills to make that a reality.
Am I coming up behind the person or can they see me coming?You witness what appears to be an 80 year old woman being screamed at by a young male in his early 20's in one of the aisles. He forcecfully shoves her to the floor where she's obviously injured, perhaps multiple injuries [ being frail in her 80's ].
Not content with shoving and injuring her, he appears about to reengage physically, maybe he'll kick her, lean down and start beating on her face [ this has happened on the streets in the past ].
What do you believe your course of action will be?
From behind I would use something handy, like an M&P 9C, finger off the trigger, to use the barrel of the firearm and apply force to the head of the perpetrator until they desist attempting to murder the victim.
From the front... Darn it. Then I would do what I hate and use words to make the guy run away or redirect his violence my way. I'd keep it simple and short.
I'd be mentally prepared to defend myself if the need should arise.
As soon as someone starts putting the boots to a downed person who can't defend themselves, it's pretty much dealer's choice as to type and intensity of action in the defense of another. The assailant is exerting lethal force and apparently will continue to do so until stopped. Stand and watch, scream at him to stop, run away, call 911, choke slam him, shoot him, whatever. Be able to reasonably articulate the rationale for your response, whatever it might be.You witness what appears to be an 80 year old woman being screamed at by a young male in his early 20's in one of the aisles. He forcecfully shoves her to the floor where she's obviously injured, perhaps multiple injuries [ being frail in her 80's ].
Not content with shoving and injuring her, he appears about to reengage physically, maybe he'll kick her, lean down and start beating on her face [ this has happened on the streets in the past ].
What do you believe your course of action will be?
Doesn't really matter to me really. I've taught people how to turn someone's shoulder and slide in behind them in just a 1/2 step. I understand many people aren't up to speed on SD/H2h in general, but then some are well versed as many members here are through various venues over the years.Am I coming up behind the person or can they see me coming?
From behind I would use something handy, like an M&P 9C, finger off the trigger, to use the barrel of the firearm and apply force to the head of the perpetrator until they desist attempting to murder the victim.
From the front... Darn it. Then I would do what I hate and use words to make the guy run away or redirect his violence my way. I'd keep it simple and short.
I'd be mentally prepared to defend myself if the need should arise.
If he sees me coming, his attention is off the older woman knocked to the floor. That's a plus, then it's just a matter of bum rushing him where he's throw his hands up to mount a defense to what he perceives is an attack on his person, PERFECT!!!!!!!!!!!!
May not go the way I planned perfectly, but it's really no big deal to slide in behind someone whose shoulder had been turned just a little.
In Aikido we learned to “pop” the shoulder with the one arm pushing the opponents shoulder away from you while simultaneously “popping” the back of the other shoulder towards you to get them to turn, then the arm that popped the shoulder away comes across into the neck starting the choke as the other arm continues to push the shoulder towards you as you side in slipping behind the opponent. Once done the first arm completes the choke.
Seems like a lot of steps here but it’s done in one fluid movement and is executed very quickly. Most people that are unprepared or never had this done to them actually freeze up making it all the more easy to apply. Then it’s lights out unless the person has been trained which is less likely or else they would have immediately responded when you executed the move then it’s a chess game……
Seems like a lot of steps here but it’s done in one fluid movement and is executed very quickly. Most people that are unprepared or never had this done to them actually freeze up making it all the more easy to apply. Then it’s lights out unless the person has been trained which is less likely or else they would have immediately responded when you executed the move then it’s a chess game……
I swat the forearm/elbow/wrist to the side and slide in under their arm in a 1/2 step, it's all over but the crying at that point. In this way, I don't have to be as close as I would have to be pushing on a shoulder [ turned sooner with a little space between us, thus the 1/2 step to the left or right oblique in and under that arm.In Aikido we learned to “pop” the shoulder with the one arm pushing the opponents shoulder away from you while simultaneously “popping” the back of the other shoulder towards you to get them to turn, then the arm that popped the shoulder away comes across into the neck starting the choke as the other arm continues to push the shoulder towards you as you side in slipping behind the opponent. Once done the first arm completes the choke.
Seems like a lot of steps here but it’s done in one fluid movement and is executed very quickly. Most people that are unprepared or never had this done to them actually freeze up making it all the more easy to apply. Then it’s lights out unless the person has been trained which is less likely or else they would have immediately responded when you executed the move then it’s a chess game……
Your way works just fine as well. Anything that will turn the shoulder just slightly, they've been set up to take a nap.
I was taught to cheat by professionals. The problem of course is it's difficult to plan in a dynamic situation.Doesn't really matter to me really. I've taught people how to turn someone's shoulder and slide in behind them in just a 1/2 step. I understand many people aren't up to speed on SD/H2h in general, but then some are well versed as many members here are through various venues over the years.
If he sees me coming, his attention is off the older woman knocked to the floor. That's a plus, then it's just a matter of bum rushing him where he's throw his hands up to mount a defense to what he perceives is an attack on his person, PERFECT!!!!!!!!!!!!
May not go the way I planned perfectly, but it's really no big deal to slide in behind someone whose shoulder had been turned just a little.
I'm not planning to go H2H if I have a choice.
I'll draw, fall on my ass and lean backwards to get a clear line of fire when the gentleman moves toward me.
If the gentleman runs, then I'm not the one that will be running him down and I'll save myself the price of the bullets.
I'll play to my strengths.
been resisting the urge to opine on this one.....
Back in the day, I'd get physical (never lost a fight in my youth... well, when sober anyhow...), Now-a-days I'm too dern old to fight it out with a youngster (anyone under 40) BUT given the "kicking my mother scenario" I would definitely get involved.
The involvement would largely depend on the orientation of the thug and myself.. If I were behind him and he were sufficiently pre-occupied, Id probably punt his 'nads into his throat AND draw down on him. If facing me, I'd verbally assault the creep, and/or throw items at him to get him to engage me. As soon as he disengaged the Granny (and the field of fire was clear) I'd unload until he was down, and if he got up, re-load and repeat. IF he was still coming at me after 24 COM, I'd lubricate his footing with ample feces and urine hoping he'd fall whilst I was making my get-away.
I believe I would be able to articulate my actions to save her from get bodily harm and the GREAT STATE of FLORIDA would take care of the rest.. Now if the scenario were to be in NJ, NY, CA, MD etc..... other than my actual mother, wife, sister, being the vic, I would seriously think twice before getting involved. Sad, but true; I'm not the man I used to be. I learned after 25yrs as a Firefighter/Paramedic that you can't save them all, and your PRIME objective was to come home to your loved ones at the end of the day.
Back in the day, I'd get physical (never lost a fight in my youth... well, when sober anyhow...), Now-a-days I'm too dern old to fight it out with a youngster (anyone under 40) BUT given the "kicking my mother scenario" I would definitely get involved.
The involvement would largely depend on the orientation of the thug and myself.. If I were behind him and he were sufficiently pre-occupied, Id probably punt his 'nads into his throat AND draw down on him. If facing me, I'd verbally assault the creep, and/or throw items at him to get him to engage me. As soon as he disengaged the Granny (and the field of fire was clear) I'd unload until he was down, and if he got up, re-load and repeat. IF he was still coming at me after 24 COM, I'd lubricate his footing with ample feces and urine hoping he'd fall whilst I was making my get-away.
I believe I would be able to articulate my actions to save her from get bodily harm and the GREAT STATE of FLORIDA would take care of the rest.. Now if the scenario were to be in NJ, NY, CA, MD etc..... other than my actual mother, wife, sister, being the vic, I would seriously think twice before getting involved. Sad, but true; I'm not the man I used to be. I learned after 25yrs as a Firefighter/Paramedic that you can't save them all, and your PRIME objective was to come home to your loved ones at the end of the day.
Once something has set me off like this scenario or the train rasta I posed in one of the tales of the streets, I'm inclined to go hands on first, and rfn at that. The tools are always there if I feel I need some escalation. I've developed an aversion to go to weapons first, perhaps that's why I forgot I was armed when I had my jaw broken in a two on one at 25 years of age. Forgot I had it, didn't need it, the one that cranked me got the worst of it with my hands/fists.I was taught to cheat by professionals. The problem of course is it's difficult to plan in a dynamic situation.
I'm not planning to go H2H if I have a choice.
I'll draw, fall on my ass and lean backwards to get a clear line of fire when the gentleman moves toward me.
If the gentleman runs, then I'm not the one that will be running him down and I'll save myself the price of the bullets.
I'll play to my strengths.
Or that I'd forgot I had a sidearm when I took the kid off the train, even when the dep's pulled me off I forgot to mention I had one on my hip. Nor did he find it/see it [ though I wasn't frisked, just cuffed and uncuffed.
There are always clearly marked fire extinguishers around, great clunking weapon.Granted this is a department store but remember this is an elderly lady, she would likely be in the women’s department . Not much in the area for use as a weapon.
The sporting goods department would be fun.
Yes that would certainly get his attention smacking him about the head and shoulders as my mother would say.There are always clearly marked fire extinguishers around, great clunking weapon.
While I’m more of a hands on guy or in this situation a boot to the face to start things off would be my first choice.
41 - 53 of 53 Posts
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