[brownie]

You witness what appears to be an 80 year old woman being screamed at by a young male in his early 20's in one of the aisles. He forcecfully shoves her to the floor where she's obviously injured, perhaps multiple injuries [ being frail in her 80's ].

Not content with shoving and injuring her, he appears about to reengage physically, maybe he'll kick her, lean down and start beating on her face [ this has happened on the streets in the past ].

What do you believe your course of action will be?

 

[racer88]

I think a physical beating of him, beginning with a HARD tackle, would be far more satisfying than just shooting him.

 

[brownie]

I think a physical beating of him, beginning with a HARD tackle, would be far more satisfying than just shooting him.

I'd not think to draw a weapon in that scenario initially either. Yet, there's people who go armed that don't have the physical capability of tackling someone who may do just that.

 

[racer88]

I'd not think to draw a weapon in that scenario initially either. Yet, there's people who go armed that don't have the physical capability of tackling someone who may do just that.

True. And when I think about it... Not so sure (at my age and physical condition) that I could pull that off. But that is my first thought. Beat the ever living **** out of him. I might hope that other similarly-minded men would join in.

 

[Riverpigusmc]

Grab something handy and heavy and chunk it at his melon then waffle stomp his bird balls after he's down

 

[Nighttrain]

I believe that he will see the inside of the second ambulance that will be called to the store.

The weapon stays in its holster.

 

[brownie]

My BP would spike, adrenaline would be dumped in the fight or flight mode, and there's unlikely to be enough time for me to formulate a plan other than rush in and take away his ability to breathe in one form or another.

 

[fuzzy03cls]

Your in a dept store weapons all around you.......I'd pick the biggest thing I could grab quick & whack a mole.

 

[Ronnie948]

Call 911 and let the Police handle it.
OR*
From a distance you just yell out for him to stop and when he starts toward you, "SHOOT HIM"
Then it is self defence and probably on a camera.
Ronnie

 

[brownie]

Call 911 and let the Police handle it.
OR*
From a distance you just yell out for him to stop and when he starts toward you, "SHOOT HIM"
Then it is self defence and probably on a camera.
Ronnie

That's fraught with danger for that person. Have the 3 prongs of deadly force use been met? Means, motive, opportunity all have to present and able to be articulated. Means [ disparity of force may be in play ], opportunity [ created when he starts to approach and gets closer ]. Motive, one has not been established at the time you state shoot him.

It's just not that simple Ronnie,

 

[7.62Kolectr]

The AOJ doesn’t have to apply to you does it?
He’s already thrown her to the ground and appears to be going in for more damage. The disparity of force between them would cover her fear of great bodily harm or death. I think an honest man would be justified in ventilating him if he could articulate it appeared he was going to kill her. Quick simple kick to the head of a lil ole lady could turn her light off. Why wait one second more?

 

[racer88]

That's fraught with danger for that person. Have the 3 prongs of deadly force use been met? Means, motive, opportunity all have to present and able to be articulated. Means [ disparity of force may be in play ], opportunity [ created when he starts to approach and gets closer ]. Motive, one has not been established at the time you state shoot him.

It's just not that simple Ronnie,

The AOJ doesn’t have to apply to you does it?
He’s already thrown her to the ground and appears to be going in for more damage. The disparity of force between them would cover her fear of great bodily harm or death. I think an honest man would be justified in ventilating him if he could articulate it appeared he was going to kill her. Quick simple kick to the head of a lil ole lady could turn her light off. Why wait one second more?

In Ronnie's scenario, the threat to the old lady is over... the perp is now headed towards Ronnie. The AOJ and 5 elements all start over from square one.

 

[joecarry]

I would probably tackle or foot ball kick his head but ventilating him as Kolectr suggested wouldn’t be outside the decision process too depending on how close I felt he was to really killing or maiming her in a moments notice.

ETA: my back stop would be seriously taken into consideration in a department store. I wouldn’t fire if I saw there were others standing down range of the bullet path. That is always a consideration but in a store with lots of people it had better be foremost on your mind before you pull the trigger.

 

[brownie]

In Ronnie's scenario, the threat to the old lady is over... the perp is now headed towards Ronnie. The AOJ and 5 elements all start over from square one.

Exactly correct. Once he moves away from her and toward you, it's a reset for using deadly force. The imminent threat to the lady is ended

One or more made mention of unconventionals at hand on the shelves. Good thinking,

 

[BeerHunter]

In Ronnie's scenario, the threat to the old lady is over... the perp is now headed towards Ronnie. The AOJ and 5 elements all start over from square one.

This precisely!

To address the douche-nozzle, I'm starting with "unconventional weapons" at my disposal all around this department store and what happens after that is highly dependent upon how he responds after that. 🤠

 

[racer88]

In Ronnie's scenario, the threat to the old lady is over... the perp is now headed towards Ronnie. The AOJ and 5 elements all start over from square one.

Exactly correct. Once he moves away from her and toward you, it's a reset for using deadly force. The imminent threat to the lady is ended

One or more made mention of unconventionals at hand on the shelves. Good thinking,

This precisely!

To address the douche-nozzle, I'm starting with "unconventional weapons" at my disposal all around this department store and what happens after that is highly dependent upon how he responds after that. 🤠

A good time to re-recommend this ESSENTIAL book. Read it. Read it again. Know it.

Amazon.com

 

[Nighttrain]

Granted this is a department store but remember this is an elderly lady, she would likely be in the women’s department . Not much in the area for use as a weapon.

The sporting goods department would be fun.

 

[brownie]

Granted this is a department store but remember this is an elderly lady, she would likely be in the women’s department . Not much in the area for use as a weapon.

The sporting goods department would be fun.

She was in the appliance aisle LOL
If she were in the lingerie area, there's all manner of flexible weapons, restraints or garrotes available 😯

 

[7.62Kolectr]

In Ronnie's scenario, the threat to the old lady is over... the perp is now headed towards Ronnie. The AOJ and 5 elements all start over from square one.

I was answering the scenario not Ronnie’s.

 

[7.62Kolectr]

Exactly correct. Once he moves away from her and toward you, it's a reset for using deadly force. The imminent threat to the lady is ended

One or more made mention of unconventionals at hand on the shelves. Good thinking,

You mention he’s in his 20s. He’s already attacked an 80yr old woman. He’s either crazy, on drugs or simply just doesn’t give AF. Either way any way I’ve got no desire to find an object to smash him on the head with. No desire to get close enough for it to become physical. You see some young person beating an old lady I don’t think anyone would criticize any of our game ending moves.







Then after you ventilate him you find out she was a crazed homeless person attacking him and he threw her off. You only saw the last second……ooops🤪🤔