Approached by a homeless aggressor

1191 Views 44 Replies 20 Participants Last post by brownie, 5 mo ago

brownie

Discussion Starter · 5 mo ago

Scenario:

You've visited someone in the hospital and are returning to your vehicle in the large parking lot that at that hour has very few vehicles parked there. It was full when you parked where you could find a spot, but now it's sitting out on the open with no vehicles near it.

As you're crossing the lot with good SA, you spot what appears to be a homeless man who appears to be in his 40's or maybe 50's hanging around the peripheral of the lot. As you keep an eye on him, you notice you're now the object of his attention as he's now moving to intercept you in the lot or at your vehicle door.

He has no visible weapons on him, he's not carrying anything that could be used as a weapon expediently against you. Before you can get the car unlocked and enter and lock the doors, he's now within 6 feet of you and closing. He's not threatening you in any verbal way, but it's clear he's not going to give up the chance to ask for and get something from you [ usually money ].

What's your response going to be?

Confront him verbally to go away, back off, leave you alone?
What if he continues to aggress on your person?
Will you allow him to get closer than that 6 feet?
How will you enforce that distance if he moves closer?
Threaten grave bodily harm or death upon him by announcing your armed and will defend yourself if he closes on you?
Can you even draw and fire your sidearm before he can reach you and wrestle for the firearm if he decides to?

Now, he's closed to bad breath distance, you're continuing to tell him to move off/go away and he's ignored you and you've done nothing but verbally warn him to not approach. Is he an imminent threat of grave bodily harm or death to your person. If he's not, will you still draw your sidearm and threaten deadly force use if he doesn't back away and leave you alone?

Interested in hearing what others would do based on their strength, infirmities, skills sets or lack thereof.

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brownie

Discussion Starter · #3 · 5 mo ago

racer88 said:
I've already failed if he's within 6 feet of me. I'm going to verbally intercept him LONG before that in this scenario. I will make it VERY clear and in no uncertain terms that he is NOT to approach me. I won't be waiting until he's 6 feet away.

I'm talking about opening a "line of communications" when he's 20 YARDS away. If he continues, I'm going to take EVASIVE action. That may mean beating him to my car.

If somehow he caught me off guard and gets close, I'd use the car as a barrier... walk around the car so that the car is between me and him while continuing my verbal commands to get away.

Or it may mean turning around and heading back to the hospital. If he gives chase, then the threat is articulable AND reasonable.

Six feet is a major failure, if that's the first interaction.

Good plan, but that can be done just as well when he's 6 feet from you also. I like the idea of telling him don't approach from further distances, but that usually doesn't stop them from continuing on their path to intercept. You could be telling him that from 20 yrds to 6 feet just as easily.

I'm not predisposed to run back to the hospital but using the vehicle to keep him at some safer distance is tactically sound.

This scenario is an actual event I experienced in the early 90's. I'll wait for others responses before I explain what my actions were.

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brownie

Discussion Starter · #14 · 5 mo ago

So here's what happened one summer evening just before twilight in the lot.

At the time I was in the habit of carrying a snub in my jacket pocket into the hospital, leaving the other [ both back pocket carried ] in the caddy. I saw him, he saw me see him, I kept walking at my pace to the caddy.

When he got to about 6 feet, I asked him what he wanted. The snub was pointed in on him at that time as I'd put the hand in the jacket pocket as I turned. He wasn't rushing to meet me at any time, just meandering my way at a normal pace.

He said he could use anything I could spare as he hadn't eaten in a few days. I asked him if he knew where the diner was around the block and he said yes but he wasn't allowed in there any more unless he was going to buy something. Told him I'd walk over with him and buy him a meal if wanted. He jumped at the chance. Humble, appreciative, grateful.

I bought him the meal [ under 10.00, paid for a second meal whenever he wanted to come in for it later and handed the waitress a 10.00 as a tip. Walked back to the lot. In conversation he admitted he had to stay by himself away from other vagrants as he'd recently been assaulted by a few taking what he had.

Hmm, he should be looked at. Tell him to meet me the next morning at 10am I had something for him. That morning I called the Fenway Health clinic and spoke to a contact of mine, explained the situation, she said bring him in. So I did, and they ended up attending his injuries and found him a bed in a sister facility.

Just down on his luck.

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brownie

Discussion Starter · #18 · 5 mo ago

FfNJGTFO said:
ISTR you mentioning a similar scenario where you tried to help the person, and for a while he accepted the help (he was also ex military) but refused the help later on and disappeared or something. Was this the same scenario?

No, that was out here and I set him up with a tent and bag in a homeless camp. He disappeared within a few days, all the gear was gone.

I've helped my share of homeless people over the years, probably because of the career and being involved with them, some rising to a personal level. Sat with a group of them for 3 nights in an alley in chinatown waiting to see one particular person walk by on the street. Dressed in ratty clothes, bottle in a bag, a few dollars to help my fellow unfortunates make another run and if you're more than accepted into their group.

Working the inner city projects [ combat zones ], I helped a few out of their troubles in return for information [ more state help, gov grant money, etc ]. Some of the real street bums [ alcoholics 24/7 who panhandled all day ] were constantly abused by younger minority men as amusement. Befriend one of them, they are a wealth of information about numbers, what corners belong to what gangs, leaders, descriptions, and even their routines at times. They were potential job resources, at the street level. Invaluable, but when in Rome, ya had to play a roman as much as possible to gain trust, slow process but in terms of months when you're in there every day.

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brownie

Discussion Starter · #22 · 5 mo ago

FfNJGTFO said:
As @racer88 stated, my goal would be to initiate conversation well before he reached the 6ft. circle, and to have the SA to make that happen. I also like circling around the vehicle. Hoepfuly, I can hit my "panic button" on the key fob and get the horn going to see what that might do. I would not draw unless it was clear that he had some weapon or means to attack me. I just hope I'd have enough time.

But yeah, the key to this scenario I think is having enough advanced SA to start a course of action long before he reached my 6ft. inner circle.

That was the key [ tactic ] I used, gun in jacket pocket, at the appropriate time hand placed on gun. Then it was a 5 shot J frame LW, today that's been refined to an NAA 22mag PUG.

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brownie

Discussion Starter · #36 · 5 mo ago

I answer the doorbell by exiting the rear door, walking around through the RV area, then the gate and peak the corner while they're staring at the door.

I've given quite a few knocking on the door a near heart attack when I ask them what they want from the around the side of the house.

Opening the door to someone knocking/ringing? I think not

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brownie

Discussion Starter · #42 · 5 mo ago

zaekyras said:
I would start stating to not get any closer as soon as he moved toward me. Stronger language if he didn't stop. I'm more than likely in a motorized wheel chair and it's 4 mph max ain't getting any where fast. If he still continues to close on me my hand is moved to my strong side not yet grabbing the weapon. Continuing the verbal stop now command. Feet wise 20 would be all I will tolerate, any closer and the protection is out but not pointed directly. If he still insists on advancing he'll be happy he's close to the hospital if he survives. No I can't get up and fight nor can I run away. Due to medical conditions hits taken on my person would probably end me. Of course adjustments would be made with the speed of his advance.
The sad thing is I have practiced this for years now and am really sad it has come to this.

Your circumstances would dictate a different response primarily due to disparity of force nearly 100% of the time

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brownie

Discussion Starter · #45 · 5 mo ago

zaekyras said:
I understand that I hope the DA does.

They'll have no choice but to. Disabled and unable to fight effectively from a chair, your only real option is your SD firearm.

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