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I was wondering if you liked it or had problem's with it at all...

Was at walmart lookin at ammunition and the .22 was VERY appealing lol, I have a glock 26 and online conversion kits cost like 250ish... i think i may have to get me one of them bad boys.:dancingbanana:rifle:ak:pistols
 

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I never really understood the appeal of .22 LR conversion kits for centerfire pistols. The notion that "well, I'm still practicing with my duty/carry weapon but it's cheaper" is baloney, IMO. You're still just firing a .22 LR pistol, so you're not experiencing the same recoil as you would with centerfire loads. I don't think that the practice value of shooting a .22 LR conversion is any greater than if you just shot a dedicated .22 LR pistol, which can usually be had for the same or less than the cost of a conversion kit.

Having said that, the Ciener conversion kits are the industry standard, so if you really want one that's the brand to buy.
 

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I use an advantage arms 22 conversion on my glock 17 while training others at certain times.

The advantage arms doesn't like federal loadings, but it eats the rems and blazer all day.

The practice value of the conversion over a standard 22 would be primarily in the areas of same holster, same grip, same trigger pull as your normal carry weapon [ which isn't likely to be the same in another 22 used for practice ].

Commonality in training gear continues to develop your proprioceptors. For instance, the draw stroke from your standard guns holster. That is not something that can be duplicated with another gun thats design and ergos is different.

There are advantages to using a conversion for your standard carry piece. Just because the recoil is different doesn't mean other areas equally important to training are not advantageous.

Brownie
 

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Just for the sake of extending the life of this thread (and because I love to argue :D), you don't need to use ammunition at all in order to practice your draw stroke, sight alignment and trigger pull...all those things can mastered with dry fire.

Ooh, I just realized that this is my 69th post. :dancingbanana
 

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you don't need to use ammunition at all in order to practice your draw stroke, sight alignment and trigger pull...all those things can mastered with dry fire.

Actually, thats incorrect sir.

Trigger pull can't be perfected without knowing your hits are on threat where you want them. That takes ammo, or a laser unit to verify whether you are anticipating recoil when the sear trips, have the correct body indexing and muscle memory when shooting from retention or FAS 1/2 hip and Quick Kill hip.

Proper indexing of the muzzle from the draw at just above the hip or just below line of sight can't be confirmed at the moment the trigger breaks without rounds on threat to make sure you aren't jerking the trigger at the moment of truth either.

All the above can be confirmed with the use of a 22 conversion unit on your daily carry piece however.

Brownie
 

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Mastering a smooth trigger stroke does not require expending a single round of ammunition, IMO; it's all about holding the gun steady and keeping the sights aligned throughout the trigger stroke. Since there is no recoil from which to flinch while dry firing, the shooter can clearly see if his sights remain aligned on target throughout the trigger stroke.

Once that "muscle-memory" becomes ingrained, then the shooter can progress to live fire.

Mastering a smooth draw from a holster also does not require expending any ammo; weapon presentation and shooting are two entirely different skills.

I'll concede that the only way to judge the accuracy of unaimed fire is by actually firing rounds on target; however, a smooth trigger stroke is not necessarily a prerequisite to accurate "point shooting", since no effort is made to align the sights and keep them steadily on target.

OK, your turn. :D
 

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Since there is no recoil from which to flinch while dry firing, the shooter can clearly see if his sights remain aligned on target throughout the trigger stroke.

Sights? Oh, I understand now. No, there's no need to fire when dry firing if you are using your aligned sights at line of sight as you state.

As 85% of the course I train others in includes various below line of sight skills one handed with speed from the holster where the gun is placed anywhere from the height of your mouth, your shoulders, your pecs and from just above the hip, that won't work without seeing where rds hit to develop your proprioceptors correctly.

Though the line of sight skills and full sight alignment are important core skills to possess for precision shooting, they're not going to be the skills you are likely to use in a SHTF SD scenario.

Mastering a smooth draw from a holster also does not require expending any ammo

It does if that smooth draw from the holster includes putting rds on threat at the end of that cycle. No reason to be practicing the smooth draw stroke if you don't have a clue where that draw stroke end up putting the bullet for you.

weapon presentation and shooting are two entirely different skills.

I'd agree, they're different, but they are absolutely linked together to produce the results you require of your firearm should you need to use it for SD.

Brownie
 

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It seems like we've been comparing apples and oranges...I've been referring to aquiring basic, component marksmanship and gun handling skills (wax on, wax off), whereas it appears that you have been referring to defensive pistol shooting skills, which, IMO, are more advanced and specialized.

OK brownie, I'll let you win this one...but you haven't heard the last of deadeyedick. Muwahaha! :drinks :D
 

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It seems like we've been comparing apples and oranges...I've been referring to aquiring basic, component marksmanship and gun handling skills (wax on, wax off),

Your premise is correct where the sole purpose is basic marksmanship skills training [ which I'm not dismissing and feel is an important element of SD with a firearm in certain circumstances.

I'll have to disagree on the "gun handling" skills. Dry fire gun handling skills are useless unless you know where your bullets are going to strike from the draw, from any position you may find yourself shooting from as well as defensively. The premise of "carrying" a firearm on our person is to be able to use that tool reactively which is not conducive to square range training [ to include dry fire practice which is also square range in mentality.

whereas it appears that you have been referring to defensive pistol shooting skills, which, IMO, are more advanced and specialized.

Defensive pistol skills are where you want to be if you are carrying a firearm with self defense in mind [ that should include everyone pretty much ]. A lot of people make the mistake of thinking that defensive pistol skills are advanced, and subsequently when they hear "advanced" they believe they may not be ready for that type of training yet.

Those that think in that manner are very mistaken indeed, as witnessed and reported in AAR's on my own Integrated Threat Focused Training System pistol course.

As a few examples of just how basic the supposed advanced skills are and how easily people with little to no gun handling skills can attain a high level of proficiency in less than two days, here are some excerpts from two students who had little to no range time before taking a weekend class.

"Even my wife, who was about as inexperienced with firearms as they come, was quite impressive with her little Kahr MK9, almost immediately. Brownie was kind enough to devote some extra time and attention to her, and when he was done she was downright scary. I wouldn't want to be on the other end of her barrel any day. That is probably what impressed me the most. Regardless of your [email protected], Brownie will do what it takes to make you competent with your gun."

and this one from

That first class, I learned to draw, point and shoot with accuracy. So did Jamie and her husband Andy. You expect a man to pick up a gun and shoot well, but not a young lady. Jamie was drawing her gun and keeping a tight circle of bullet holes in her target that first day.

and from Linda once again:

It was amazing that Brownie could take someone that had never shot a gun before and someone like me who had, and teach both of us how to aim without sites and hit a target with such accuracy. I had never drawn a gun from a holster, aimed without using the sites or kept a tight pattern on the target, but on that first day of class I did. So did Jamie!

So we see from peoples reviews of the often thought of as "advanced" skills training, that these skills allow an inexperienced shooter, one who had only handled a gun once or twice in here life was shooting with the best of the students on the first day. It happens all the time. These skills I train others in are not rocket science or something that you have to wait to own until you think you are ready.

Everyone, barring a physical disability, already has the skills physically to do everything I can do with a firearm. They just haven't been shown how properly. If that were not the case, I couldn't take new or novice shooters and get them to that level of proficiency in a day or two.

I've got this thread running presently on the course of fire coming to your state in Oct. http://floridaconcealedcarry.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=234

People, please consider what the husband said about his wife and what Linda wrote of her experiences. Don't miss the opportunity to gain real SD shooting skills with your pistol if you can afford the time, ammo and cost of the course.

It'll be the best money you'll spent on training. You'll walk away from that weekend with real skills you can employ on the streets and be as fast as hell at doing it, or I'll refund your tuition.

I'm confident in my ability to bring the members here to a level of proficiency well beyond what they presently possess, whether that be a novice who has just got his ccw and first firearm or the seasoned veteran who has been to numerous shooting classes.

We've got three for sure on board for Oct in Fla. I'd ask the members who may think they are not ready for this type of course to reconsider attending. It's an eye opener for everyone including the USAF Para Rescue teams I'm training here in Az or the wife who hasn't handled a gun enough to be comfortable.

Brownie
 

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OK brownie, I'll let you win this one...but you haven't heard the last of deadeyedick.

We all win when we have an informational exchange that presents different views.

Looking forward to more discussions with you and others here in the future.:drinks

Brownie
 

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first post, Hello from Sarasota

From my limited experience, I've found that shooting .22's, while 'not' the same as full power ammo, helps ALOT>>> It ALL carries over. Trigger time is Trigger time. Dry firing, dry grips, reloads and draws are all part of necessary practice, to become more efficient and improve on gun handling and shooting skills. There is still no substitute for LIVE fire. Back to the original topic... .22 conversion kits are a great addition to anyone’s collection, allowing them to use there existing holsters, mag holders ect.. to add to there practice time at the range. I try and shoot at least 500 rounds of .22's in addition to regular practice ammo, on each outing. I think the greatest advantage would go toward the glocks and cz's. If you are regularly shooting a 1911 type pistol, go buy yourself a S&W model 41, you will never regret it.

One more thing, "I would like you to meet, my LITTLE FRIEND"



 
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