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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I know the "Can I carry here" posts are usually a pain, but I came across a situation that I was very unsure about and wanted to get some opinions.

If you're from the Fort Myers area, you probably are familiar with the "World Famous" Cigar Bar. For everyone else, I'll give you a quick description. The cigar bar is a lounge type establishment with a lot of couches, chairs, and coffee tables, along with a full liquor/beer bar that goes along the edge, along with a huge walk-in humidor.

I usually go over to the cigar bar with a few friends, have some cigars, and rarely have a drink. I am a little unsure of the situation here, being that they don't serve food. This means they must have a full 4COP (consumption on premises) liquor license. At the same time, though, I assume that the main purpose of their establishment is for the sale of cigars.

The question here is, being that I am not sitting AT the bar itself, am I still breaking the law if I carry there? I know the statutes are hazy, and it will be mostly opinions, but I just would like to know how everyone feels.

Thanks
 

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I would think it would be illegal in that the whole establishment is a "bar" in the legal sense being food is not served. JMO, though.
 

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Well in a real restaurant, Bonefish for instance, even though you sit at a table IN THE BAR SECTION with food, it is still illegal since you are in the "bar section". I think the place you described would all be considered in that light. I think you're wise not to chance it since it would be expensive to defend even IF you eventually prevailed. Like you said, it isn't really clear so an arrest COULD happen. :thumsup
 

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Just to be clear, per the statutes you don't need to actually be "AT" the bar:

The prohibited location = Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;

I think you're suggesting that their primary business is cigars, but that may not really be true. I think (non-lawyer opinion) that you would be well advised to avoid carrying there.

The only places where I feel comfortable carrying, where the place serves alcohol, is in a restaurant which also serves alcohol and if there is a clearly delineated area "just for drinks" I stay out of that area.
 

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It's called a Cigar "Bar." If you walked into any other establishment that is a Bar, do you expect to find cigars or alcoholic beverages? I'd imagine that's how a prosecutor may look at it.
 

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Well in a real restaurant, Bonefish for instance, even though you sit at a table IN THE BAR SECTION with food, it is still illegal since you are in the "bar section". I think the place you described would all be considered in that light. I think you're wise not to chance it since it would be expensive to defend even IF you eventually prevailed. Like you said, it isn't really clear so an arrest COULD happen. :thumsup
I don't agree with that, the law says:
Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose.
so if I am having dinner at a table near the bar it isn't a section that is primarily devoted to drinking because they are serving food there. for if it was a table primarily for drinking they wouldn't be serving dinner there.
the bottom line is that as usual the law is ambiguous and if you are acting foolishly with your weapon anywhere near the bar they can use that law to nail you, if you are concealed properly, enjoy your dinner at a table near the bar and nobody will have any issues.
YMMV.
 

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I would just weld a 500 lb. safe to the frame in the trunk of my car and secure my weapon in it before going into the bar. (kidding)
I think it would be illegal to carry in the cigar bar.
 

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I don't agree with that, the law says:
Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose.
so if I am having dinner at a table near the bar it isn't a section that is primarily devoted to drinking because they are serving food there. for if it was a table primarily for drinking they wouldn't be serving dinner there.
the bottom line is that as usual the law is ambiguous and if you are acting foolishly with your weapon anywhere near the bar they can use that law to nail you, if you are concealed properly, enjoy your dinner at a table near the bar and nobody will have any issues.
YMMV.
I agree with this ... I think when a restaurant "converts" bar service tables to full food service tables they have essentially extended the restaurant/food service area.

Many here also use the "belly up to the bar" rule of thumb, but that too is an ambiguous area if the establishment regularly serves food at the actual bar -- although I'll avoid the test case poster boy status on this particular one.
 

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I'm not sure that is correct. Specifically at Bonefish, most use the tables to wait for a table but it is definitely a distinct , designated bar section. They don't have full waiter service, you order at the bar and it is brought in from the kitchen and I believe they have a seperate bar menu. Not a problem for me since I don't go there to eat in the bar section. I still wouldn't do it because I view the bar section as primarily devoted to drinks NOT food. YMMV.
 

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I'm not sure that is correct. Specifically at Bonefish, most use the tables to wait for a table but it is definitely a distinct , designated bar section. They don't have full waiter service, you order at the bar and it is brought in from the kitchen and I believe they have a seperate bar menu. Not a problem for me since I don't go there to eat in the bar section. I still wouldn't do it because I view the bar section as primarily devoted to drinks NOT food. YMMV.
And so right here in this little exchange is the exact problem ... some places have a bar-only bar, some places have a bar-restaurant bar, some have a bit of a mix. If it's not 100% clear stay out of that area when carrying.
 

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I usually go over to the cigar bar with a few friends, have some cigars, and rarely have a drink.
No one else said it so I will.

So you go over to the cigar bar and have a Hoyo Excalibur 1066...but don't indulge in a double malt scotch to go with it?
 

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No one else said it so I will.

So you go over to the cigar bar and have a Hoyo Excalibur 1066...but don't indulge in a double malt scotch to go with it?
double malt?

I just looked at their website .. they offer The Macallan 25yo ... a fine single malt ... my absolute favorite (when I can afford it of course)
 

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I'm not sure that is correct. Specifically at Bonefish, most use the tables to wait for a table but it is definitely a distinct , designated bar section. They don't have full waiter service, you order at the bar and it is brought in from the kitchen and I believe they have a seperate bar menu. Not a problem for me since I don't go there to eat in the bar section. I still wouldn't do it because I view the bar section as primarily devoted to drinks NOT food. YMMV.
that may be the case at the bonefish you go to and then you would be correct that is indeed a bar area, but in many places there are tables near the bar that are used for dining, full waiter service and that to me is not part of the bar area.
 

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And so right here in this little exchange is the exact problem ... some places have a bar-only bar, some places have a bar-restaurant bar, some have a bit of a mix. If it's not 100% clear stay out of that area when carrying.
the law says primarily devoted to serving drinks, if they are serving food there so it is not devoted to drinking, some people go as far as not even walking through a bar area to access the rest rooms. you are free to do as you feel but I don't feel the need to take things to extremes.
that said I am not hanging out in a place like that to drink, I am there to have dinner and enjoy some adult beverages. everyone reacts differently to alcohol, some smell the stuff and are bombed others can consume a lot and not be overly affected, you need to know yourself, and act accordingly. If you are one of those who get smashed after a beer, leave your gun in the car.
 

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that may be the case at the bonefish you go to and then you would be correct that is indeed a bar area, but in many places there are tables near the bar that are used for dining, full waiter service and that to me is not part of the bar area.
The one in Naples actually has a seperate bar room it isn't really contiguous to the dining room and is to the right of the reception area. I really think they use it mainly as a place to sit people waiting for a table in the dining room and have a drink while they wait. It is a very busy venue there. I think the key word is "primary" and that is open to interpretation but I'll err on the cautious side.
 

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double malt?

I just looked at their website .. they offer The Macallan 25yo ... a fine single malt ... my absolute favorite (when I can afford it of course)
Double malt, single malt.....whatever....I dont drink that nasty stuff anyway. I guess I dont know my scotch among other things? hahaha
 

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It (malt) is the germinated grain that is ground into a powder prior to any fermentation. Malt can refer to barley, rye, corn, or any other grain. In Scotland, a single malt refers to the product of a single distillery from a single grain (usually barley, but not always). Once the malting process is complete and the sugars extracted, yeast is added to start the fermentation process. The fermented product (which is essentially beer) is then distilled and aged. For single malts, the number of years on the bottle indicates the minimum age of the whiskey in question (different years can be blended to ensure consistency, but the minimum age is found on the bottle.) The intent of single malt is to provide the character of the region and individual distillery.

Google is my friend, I don't drink Scotch either anymore but that story is for another time and I still get nauseous thinking about it some forty plus years later. :banghead2

There is no such thing as double malt.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
It's called a Cigar "Bar." If you walked into any other establishment that is a Bar, do you expect to find cigars or alcoholic beverages? I'd imagine that's how a prosecutor may look at it.
I understand your thinking, but then again, I frequently go to the Hookah "bar" which doesn't serve alcohol at all. I work at a place with the phrase "bar and grille" in the name. There's Bar Louie, ALE House, and all kinds of other places that have the word "bar" in them or reference drinking, when in fact they do not serve alcohol at all or most of their revenue is generated by food sales...
 

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The bottom line, regarding tables that are next to the bar, but are being used for serving diners is, there has yet to be a test case. You can argue that this is part of the bar, or you can argue that it is a dining area, but at this point it is just a matter of one opinion against another. Until a test case works its way through the legal system no one can say for sure one way or the other.

Personally, I agree with MPDC66. I will err on the side of caution, because I do not want to be the test case for this one.

Regarding the cigar bar, do you know how much money they make from cigar sales versus alcohol sales? Might be worth a casual question to one of the employees sometime. The few cigar bars that I've been in, my guess would be that they make more money off of drinks than they do off of smokes. As such, I think it would be pretty easy for a prosecutor to argue that they are "primarily" in the business of selling alcohol. Again, I would personally err on the side of caution and NOT carry in there.
 
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