[SwampRat]

Self Defense Ammunition

Bullets and Bull

The purpose of this guide is to relay information which may assist the law abiding citizen in selecting the best ammunition for a defensive firearm. “Best” is a very subjective attribute, and any recommendations given should be viewed in the context of the gun owner’s personal knowledge and experience.

Empirical data regarding one shot stopping capability of a particular cartridge have contributed to the formulation of the following ammunition performance recommendations. This information is derived primarily from the real world shooting experiences of law enforcement agencies.

“One shot stop” refers to a cartridge’s ability to make an aggressor immediately cease their threatening behavior when shot once in the torso. Head, neck, and multiple shootings are not considered in the data. “One shot stop” does not necessarily infer that a mortal wound was inflicted. It merely means that the shooting created physical injury or psychological trauma sufficient to result in cessation of aggressive or violent behavior. Death may or may not have resulted.

In addition to “one shot stop” statistics, keep in mind that a bullet striking the torso of one’s adversary ideally must penetrate deeply enough to encounter and disrupt vital organs, arteries and blood vessels. Penetration, indeed, is paramount.

You will find that the penetration characteristics of various bullet calibers complement the “stopping” information obtained from actual shootings. Penetration data are largely developed from shots fired into a ballistic gelatin designed to approximate bodily tissue. Such data also serve as the basis for the recommendations which follow regarding ammunition for personal protection.

It cannot be overstated that proper shot placement under stress is the single most important skill brought to bear in a self defense situation. Proper shot placement involves shooting the attacker in the head, the cervical spine, or the torso.

A head or spinal neck shot will immediately incapacitate. The goal of a torso shot is to produce hemorrhage by rupturing the heart or any of the major blood vessels. This will result in relatively quick cessation of hostilities. Forced collapse from blood loss will take several seconds to occur, even when primary blood vessels such as the aorta or vena cava have been destroyed. When the blood supply is disrupted in this manner, the brain of one’s assailant is deprived of oxygen needed for conscious function.

Vital organs and cardiovascular structures reside deep within the human body. Hence, in addition to proper shot placement, one must possess a caliber of bullet capable of reaching them. Under favorable conditions, 6 to 8 inches of penetration will incapacitate an assailant. As a degree of insurance, the bullet should be capable of plowing through tissue into the attacker’s bodily core from any angle of engagement, considering that vitals may be obstructed by an arm, extremely heavy clothing, or large body mass.

For this reason, ten to twelve inches of penetration potential is regarded to be the acceptable minimum for a caliber chosen for self defense. Eighteen is the maximum, considering the danger to innocent bystanders represented by a stray bullet which exits the assailant’s body. “Over kill” is unnecessary. One gains little from enduring the blast , recoil, and potential loss of control necessary for accurate follow up shots that are associated with excessively large “hunting” calibers.

Under identical conditions of shot placement, a larger caliber bullet with a penetration of 10 to 12 inches will inflict more damage to an attacker’s vital organs and structures than will a smaller caliber bullet capable of the same penetration.

Keep in mind, however, that disabling hits from a small caliber firearm, inflicted with deliberate accuracy by the intended victim, will devastate an unskilled, erratic attacker possessing a more powerful weapon.

Be aware that people can move very quickly, covering in excess of twenty feet within one and one-half seconds. In any event, be sure to fire multiple shots at your attacker.

Tactics and marksmanship will save lives of potential victims and diffuse or terminate violent encounters. Using the “best” cartridge for one’s caliber of firearm merely gives the armed citizen a technological edge in any defensive situation.

When compared to rifles and shotguns, handguns are not the most potent form of self protection. In fact, the vast majority of people shot with handguns, in excess of 80 percent, survive. Hence, seek to incapacitate an attacker with a combination of skilled shot placement and proven ammunition.

 

[gators_2006]

Self Defense Ammunition

Bullets and Bull


Vital organs and cardiovascular structures reside deep within the human body. Hence, in addition to proper shot placement, one must possess a caliber of bullet capable of reaching them. Under favorable conditions, 6 to 8 inches of penetration will incapacitate an assailant. As a degree of insurance, the bullet should be capable of plowing through tissue into the attacker’s bodily core from any angle of engagement, considering that vitals may be obstructed by an arm, extremely heavy clothing, or large body mass.

So with this said, if shooting a smaller caliber, let's say 380, since those are pretty common and because that's all I have at the moment(better than nothing), what would your choice be. FMJ would probably solve the depth issue, but would require shot placement. HP would do more tissue damage but I don't see it going deep enough. What about a JHP, would that be more in the middle.

 

[brownie]

I carry Buffalo Bore 100 grain hard cast in my PPK if and when I take it out as a second gun.

Here's the link:

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=127

Might try these also:

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=29

1. Item 27A/20 is a 100gr. HARD cast bullet with a flat nose. It is traveling over 1,150 fps out of my 3.75 inch BDA (Browning Double Action). We've used a flash suppressed powder for all three of our 380 auto loads so that you wont be blinded by your own gunfire if you have to shoot in the dark and since around 95% of all civilian shootings in America occur in low light, the chances that your own gunfire will blind you while you are trying to save your life, are good - we've eliminated this variable by using flash suppressed powder. We've also chosen a flat nosed solid bullet. The flat on the nose ensures that the bullet will cut/smash its way through flesh and bone and do much more destruction than typical round nose FMJ bullets. Round nosed bullets tend to slip and slide through matter, doing little damage as opposed to a flat nosed bullet. The flat nose not only wounds much more than a round nosed bullet, but it actually keeps the penetration straight and thus deeper. Notice the below velocities recorded from my personal 380 auto pistols. These are real world guns and thus the speeds are realistic and not exaggerated speeds produced from laboratory test barrels. What you see with Buffalo Bore Ammo, is truly what you get in the "real world", where it matters. You can expect 20+ inches of straight-line penetration in flesh and bone with this load.

If you are worried about over penetration with this load, DON'T! You chose to carry a tiny under-powered 380 auto pistol and the trade-off is that you are now going to have to stay alive with that pistol and over penetration will be the least of your worries if you end up needing this gun to save yourself or your family.

1. BDA-3.75 inch barrel--- 1160 fps
2. Walther PPK-3.5 inch barrel-----1149 fps
3. Colt Mustang Pocket Lite-2.75 inch barrel---1072 fps
4. Keltec---1061 fps

2. Item 27B/20 is the very same load as 27A above, but it uses a 95 gr. FMJ-FN (Full metal jacket-flat nose) bullet. We designed it for folks who simply don't like hard cast bullets. Although it is 5 grains lighter, it is moving a tad bit slower than the 100gr. hard cast bullet. This is because the hard cast bullet produces less friction in the barrel than a jacketed bullet and therefore produces less pressure, so we can run it a little faster even though it is heavier. Some pistols may not give good accuracy with the cast bullet, and some folks don't like cast bullets, so we made the same load with a jacketed bullet for those folks. This FMJ-FN load is designed to do the very same thing as the hard cast load above. Check out my "real world" velocities from my "real world" pistols below. You can expect nearly 20 inches of straight-line penetration in human flesh and bone with this load.

1. BDA-3.75 inch barrel----1145 fps
2. Walther PPK-3.5 inch barrel----1120 fps
3. Colt Mustang Pocket Lite-2.75 inch barrel----1042 fps
4. Keltec - 2.75 inch barrel----1019 fps

3. Item 27C/20 is a 90gr. Jacketed Hollow Point bullet and is the only hollow nosed expanding bullet we trust to expand reliably, yet penetrate deep enough to be lethal on a drugged up, pain free attacker. It is traveling over 1,200 fps out of my BDA (Browning Double Action) with its 3.75 inch barrel. This bullet is truly bonded and will mushroom to about .55 caliber and not lose any weight, thus penetrating quite deeply in human matter. You should expect about 10+ inches of penetration in flesh and bone. We've utilized the very same flash suppressed powders that we've used in our two other 380 auto +P loads. If you like the idea of the extra big hole this expanding load makes in human flesh, we would advise that you load this bullet in your chamber, followed by a magazine full of our non-expanding loads. So, if the first shot does not incapacitate the attacker, your magazine is full of ammo that will, if you can put the bullet in his spine or brain from any angle. Note my "real world" velocities from my personal "real world" pistols.

1. BDA-3.75 inch barrel----1218 fps
2. Walther PPK-3.5 inch barrel-----1200 fps
3. Colt Mustang Pocket Lite-2.75 inch barrel---1123 fps
4. Keltec---1100 fps

Hope that helps

Brownie

 

[SwampRat]

So with this said, if shooting a smaller caliber, let's say 380, since those are pretty common and because that's all I have at the moment(better than nothing), what would your choice be. FMJ would probably solve the depth issue, but would require shot placement. HP would do more tissue damage but I don't see it going deep enough. What about a JHP, would that be more in the middle.

You're right..its better than nothing...Brownie's post above is probably your best option on Ammo. Just remember that was written by the ammo manufacturer. Speed or FPS means nothing without proper penetration. A .55 wound channel doesnt compare to a 9mm Ranger at .75. With smaller calibers shot placement and capacity is even more critical than with larger calibers. The ability to recover from recoil and get back on target is also a factor in +P loads or hot loads. To me a lightweight short barreled .380 with hot loads or even a 2" .38 spl snubby airweight revolver are just as hard to back on target as a 6" 44 magnum because of felt recoil and muzzle flip..

Question I have for all those that carry those smaller guns is,,,how often do you practice with it? I wont put more than 20-50 shots downrange with a light weight snubby, or a 380. I can put 500 rounds down range with my 9mm or my full size 1911 in an hour. I practice with what I carry and put anywhere's between 300-500 rounds down range with either on a monthly basis..If the gun you carry is to uncomfortable to shoot and practice with on a regular basis how can we expect to retain any skills learned or acquired. Skills will deteriorate without proper practice and training and that means put rounds down range. Now if anyone practices with their house gun so to speak but carries something much smaller, how good do you expect to be when the SHTF and your life and possibly the lives of your family are at stake..?

I want everyone to understand..I'm not bad mouthing smaller calibers if its all you have or can carry because of your environment or affordability. Something is better than nothing. What I do want to see is people get out of that "comfort zone" when they think its enough or because of the "the heat" or they just arent willing to sacrifice their dress code for a much better self defense gun. I hear it all the time..I dont want to wear a holster, I cant find one that works with the way I dress, I want something I can slip into my pocket or smart carry, something that is lightweight, I wear elastic band pants or shorts and a holster wont work for me..I never expect to need it, I dont go into those areas so I wont need anything hi-cap or bigger..yeah yeah yeah..

If you cant shoot 2000 rounds thru it in a weekend like we do in the Threat Focused course you probably have the wrong gun...practice with what you carry otherwise you might as well throw it at the bad guy..better chance of hitting him...

 

[brownie]

You're right..its better than nothing...Brownie's post above is probably your best option on Ammo. Just remember that was written by the ammo manufacturer. Speed or FPS means nothing without proper penetration. A .55 wound channel doesnt compare to a 9mm Ranger at .75. With smaller calibers shot placement and capacity is even more critical than with larger calibers. The ability to recover from recoil and get back on target is also a factor in +P loads or hot loads. To me a lightweight short barreled .380 with hot loads or even a 2" .38 spl snubby airweight revolver are just as hard to back on target as a 6" 44 magnum because of felt recoil and muzzle flip..

Question I have for all those that carry those smaller guns is,,,how often do you practice with it? I wont put more than 20-50 shots downrange with a light weight snubby, or a 380. I can put 500 rounds down range with my 9mm or my full size 1911 in an hour. I practice with what I carry and put anywhere's between 300-500 rounds down range with either on a monthly basis..If the gun you carry is to uncomfortable to shoot and practice with on a regular basis how can we expect to retain any skills learned or acquired. Skills will deteriorate without proper practice and training and that means put rounds down range. Now if anyone practices with their house gun so to speak but carries something much smaller, how good do you expect to be when the SHTF and your life and possibly the lives of your family are at stake..?

I want everyone to understand..I'm not bad mouthing smaller calibers if its all you have or can carry because of your environment or affordability. Something is better than nothing. What I do want to see is people get out of that "comfort zone" when they think its enough or because of the "the heat" or they just arent willing to sacrifice their dress code for a much better self defense gun. I hear it all the time..I dont want to wear a holster, I cant find one that works with the way I dress, I want something I can slip into my pocket or smart carry, something that is lightweight, I wear elastic band pants or shorts and a holster wont work for me..I never expect to need it, I dont go into those areas so I wont need anything hi-cap or bigger..yeah yeah yeah..

If you cant shoot 2000 rounds thru it in a weekend like we do in the Threat Focused course you probably have the wrong gun...practice with what you carry otherwise you might as well throw it at the bad guy..better chance of hitting him...

Tell us how you really feel, please don't hold back :rolf

The underlined in your post is an important issue many may have not recognized about their little pocket pistols. I know with my Walther PPK's and PPK/s', I've put 300 rds downrange practicing the skills I train in, in about an hour maybe 1.5 hours, and my hands bleeding long before then from shooting rapid fire shots just as I would on the bigger guns as those skills should be the same with both, otherwise the detriment of the smaller gun might just get you hurt or killed because it hurts to shoot them long hard and continuously like their bigger counter-parts.

Those 100 grain BB's I carry sting like hell out of an all steel PPK. I can't imagine running those would feel like through a much lighter gun like the Kel-tec

It's up to everyone how they train, what they carry, and how they carry which allows the gun to be accessed in an expedient manner. If you can't get to it "RIGHT NOW" without being a contortionist, if you can't train with it properly or enough because it hurts to shoot it enough to be instinctive with it, you better hope you never have to react to a BG's actions and use that pea shooter to begin with.

Excellent thought process Terry

Brownie

 

[gators_2006]

Until the shortage of ammo came to be, I would shot 100+ a weekend of 380, that's about all my busy schedule would let me have. I am very comfortable with it, and trust my shooting ability. Now that I am basically out of 380, I am down to shooting several hundred 22 a weekend with an old colt ace 22 service pistol. Fun gun to shoot. My granddad, before he passed away, was Miami PD and finished his career as a shooting instructor at the academy. He taught all of us how to shoot from a very early age, so I can say that I have been shooting a pistol (22, 380, 9, 357, and 45) for almost 22 yrs now. He was very strict about taking quick shots and using point shooting right from the draw and unloading as fast and accurate as possible. He too had no sights on most of his guns I learned with. To this day, my deer rifle is about the only gun I use sights with. My only concern is that until I can get a bigger caliber, would love to get a 40, am I using ammo that would work the best. Right now, all I have left for my 380 and chambered are JHP's. I am pretty confident on how I would react in a situation, but I'm not going to boost about it, because I don't think no one truly knows until the cards are dealt.