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Discussion Starter #1
well SNOPES.COM will not disagree with this:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hunting-licenses-versus-armies/


More hunting licenses, tags, permits, and stamps were sold in the U.S. in 2018 (about 37 million) than the number of total members in the world's 10 largest armies (about 25 million).
What's False

However, a single hunter can own multiple hunting licenses; the total number of hunters in the United States in 2018 (about 15 million) is less than the total members in the world's 10 largest armies (about 25 million); and comparing the military might of recreational hunters and trained armies involves more than just counting active participants.
 

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Well, it's a stupid meme and Snopes is correct in one regard...the numbers have nothing to do with each other. A hunter is not a soldier, and frankly, most of the hunters I know would suck at soldiering.
 

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Saying "numbers don't matter" is simply naive.

They DO matter. A large number of "un-soldiers" could easily overwhelm a small number of professional soldiers. It's a matter of WILL.

There are PLENTY of examples of non-professional armed citizens defeating an organized professional army... our own country's founding, for example.

This silly argument reminds me of the liberals' perennial claim that, "citizens with AR-15s can't defeat tanks and jet fighters." Anyone who says that is... well... I'll be nice... PROFOUNDLY IGNORANT. That's simply not how such a war would happen.

It's also silly to use the 25 million figure since it assumes ALL TEN of those armies would be attacking us simultaneously / in-unison.

BTW, I just looked up the largest military forces in the world, and the top ten come to shy of 10 million... nowhere near 25 million.

The vast majority of those armies do not have the logistical capability to mobilize to the USA, in any case. I submit that China is the only one that would have SOME capability to move an army to our shores.

The bottom line... I have FULL confidence that our "hunters" (and other armed citizens) would be quite a thorn in the side of any foreign (or domestic) entity that dared to invade. It would be VERY ugly. Wolverines! :grin
 

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The Emperor of Japan once did mention a SWARM of HORNETS or it may have been one of their Generals.
Ronnie
 

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Saying "numbers don't matter" is simply naive.

They DO matter. A large number of "un-soldiers" could easily overwhelm a small number of professional soldiers. It's a matter of WILL.

There are PLENTY of examples of non-professional armed citizens defeating an organized professional army... our own country's founding, for example.

This silly argument reminds me of the liberals' perennial claim that, "citizens with AR-15s can't defeat tanks and jet fighters." Anyone who says that is... well... I'll be nice... PROFOUNDLY IGNORANT. That's simply not how such a war would happen.

It's also silly to use the 25 million figure since it assumes ALL TEN of those armies would be attacking us simultaneously / in-unison.

BTW, I just looked up the largest military forces in the world, and the top ten come to shy of 10 million... nowhere near 25 million.

The vast majority of those armies do not have the logistical capability to mobilize to the USA, in any case. I submit that China is the only one that would have SOME capability to move an army to our shores.

The bottom line... I have FULL confidence that our "hunters" (and other armed citizens) would be quite a thorn in the side of any foreign (or domestic) entity that dared to invade. It would be VERY ugly. Wolverines! :grin
Nice job racer....
 

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These days, I'm afraid that a lot of people in this country would pick up arms and stand with the invaders. The Lib media, schools and Hollywood have brainwashed so many people to think that this country, our constitution and capitalism are the source of all the problems in the world.

If they came in through the West Coast or North East Coast they'd immediately pick up an army of ANTIFA, BLM etc... These people already violently oppose our way of life. A lot of Lib politicians would quickly take up command/recruiting positions with the invading army and lead our own people against us. It's not much different from what they're doing now.
 

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These days, I'm afraid that a lot of people in this country would pick up arms and stand with the invaders. The Lib media, schools and Hollywood have brainwashed so many people to think that this country, our constitution and capitalism are the source of all the problems in the world.

If they came in through the West Coast or North East Coast they'd immediately pick up an army of ANTIFA, BLM etc... These people already violently oppose our way of life. A lot of Lib politicians would quickly take up command/recruiting positions with the invading army and lead our own people against us. It's not much different from what they're doing now.
They wouldn't get far inland. Even California is full of rednecks. Believe me. Take away the coastal cities of SD, LA, SF... and it's a RED state.

Same thing on the east coast. As soon as they went inland, the "bugaloo" would be ON. I have absolutely no doubts.

But, again.... this is fantasy. The reality is that few (none?) countries, that are our potential enemies, have the logistical capability to actually transport any sizeable army to our shores. That's not to mention the resistance they'd meet on the trip over.

Even "fortified" with man-bun-wearing antifa turncoats, we'd have it wrapped up very quickly.
 

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A large number of "un-soldiers" could easily overwhelm a small number of professional soldiers

Depends on what that small number of professional soldiers we're talking about. Regular army enlisted are professional soldiers, but 6 regular army professional soldiers aren't capable of what 6 Seal team members or 6 force recon Marines are capable of accomplishing.

7th Air Cav had 500 men, the NVA had 2500 soldiers Ia Drang in Nov, 1965. 150 or so of 7th Cav were killed while over 800 nva were killed. The nva troops were hardened soldiers, they lost nearly 6 to every 1 of ours. History abounds with battles where a small fighting forces beat back large numbers of enemy combatants.

One thing that should be mentioned is that hunters aren't being shot back at. A hunter is only a hunter goes just so far, most hunters I've been around wouldn't have the stomach for a protracted fight liker Ia Drang
 

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Discussion Starter #11
A large number of "un-soldiers" could easily overwhelm a small number of professional soldiers


7th Air Cav had 500 men, the NVA had 2500 soldiers Ia Drang in Nov, 1965. 150 or so of 7th Cav were killed while over 800 nva were killed. The nva troops were hardened soldiers, they lost nearly 6 to every 1 of ours. History abounds with battles where a small fighting forces beat back large numbers of enemy combatants.
there was a pretty good movie about Lieutenant Colonel Harold G. Moore and his unit. We Were Soldiers - The Battle of Ia Drang, 1965
 

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A large number of "un-soldiers" could easily overwhelm a small number of professional soldiers

Depends on what that small number of professional soldiers we're talking about. Regular army enlisted are professional soldiers, but 6 regular army professional soldiers aren't capable of what 6 Seal team members or 6 force recon Marines are capable of accomplishing.

7th Air Cav had 500 men, the NVA had 2500 soldiers Ia Drang in Nov, 1965. 150 or so of 7th Cav were killed while over 800 nva were killed. The nva troops were hardened soldiers, they lost nearly 6 to every 1 of ours. History abounds with battles where a small fighting forces beat back large numbers of enemy combatants.

One thing that should be mentioned is that hunters aren't being shot back at. A hunter is only a hunter goes just so far, most hunters I've been around wouldn't have the stomach for a protracted fight liker Ia Drang
I expected that and don't disagree, necessarily.

But, if it was 50,000 armed U.S. citizens vs 1,000 NKs or Chinese.... I'm gonna give the edge to the pissed off rednecks. I think the "hunters" wouldn't take kindly to a foreign invading force. While under "normal" circumstances, hunters might turn tail and run when rounds come their way... I submit that they will NOT accept submission to a bunch of Chinese or NKs or Russians and will find the needed courage to face them down. Because if they don't... they're going to die anyway. Better to die in a pile of brass than on your knees while watching them rape your wife and daughter, eh?

Of course, this is all fantasy. They aren't going to send infantry. As I mentioned earlier, the logistics required to transport a substantial number of potential enemy troops to our actual shores is beyond the capabilities of most, if not all countries out there. If they were to attack us, I suspect it will be via ICBM or other air attacks, including electronic countermeasures to disrupt our communications, power, and financial infrastructure.
 

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I expected that and don't disagree, necessarily.

But, if it was 50,000 armed U.S. citizens vs 1,000 NKs or Chinese.... I'm gonna give the edge to the pissed off rednecks. I think the "hunters" wouldn't take kindly to a foreign invading force. While under "normal" circumstances, hunters might turn tail and run when rounds come their way... I submit that they will NOT accept submission to a bunch of Chinese or NKs or Russians and will find the needed courage to face them down. Because if they don't... they're going to die anyway. Better to die in a pile of brass than on your knees while watching them rape your wife and daughter, eh?

Of course, this is all fantasy. They aren't going to send infantry. As I mentioned earlier, the logistics required to transport a substantial number of potential enemy troops to our actual shores is beyond the capabilities of most, if not all countries out there. If they were to attack us, I suspect it will be via ICBM or other air attacks, including electronic countermeasures to disrupt our communications, power, and financial infrastructure.
We know with fair certainty that gun owning/carrying citizens by and large have NO formal arms training. It's deemed about 1% of gun carriers ever take any training past that required to get their ltc. So, take your 50K x 1% that have training, you're down to 500 that may have more training than the average gun carrier in the US.

Now take and put that 500 barely trained against 1000 hardened military soldiers from NK or china, wanna guess who actually takes a battlefield? :grin

I'm not holding out hope American hunters are ever going to be the difference between an invading formally trained fighting force. Especially when those hunters are not organized into cohesive units that operate with disciplined unit tactics, don't have comms to communicate and develop tactics or gather intel that would be necessary to defeat a well trained force.
 

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We know with fair certainty that gun owning/carrying citizens by and large have NO formal arms training. It's deemed about 1% of gun carriers ever take any training past that required to get their ltc. So, take your 50K x 1% that have training, you're down to 500 that may have more training than the average gun carrier in the US.

Now take and put that 500 barely trained against 1000 hardened military soldiers from NK or china, wanna guess who actually takes a battlefield? :grin

I'm not holding out hope American hunters are ever going to be the difference between an invading formally trained fighting force. Especially when those hunters are not organized into cohesive units that operate with disciplined unit tactics, don't have comms to communicate and develop tactics or gather intel that would be necessary to defeat a well trained force.
One word: Colonists

They weren't highly-trained soldiers, either.

Again... we are debating a fantasy that could / would never happen. It would be guerilla warfare, just like the colonists vs the red coats... not formalized / academic field tactics. Rednecks sniping the invaders from concealment. :grin
 

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One word: Colonists

They weren't highly-trained soldiers, either.

Again... we are debating a fantasy that could / would never happen. It would be guerilla warfare, just like the colonists vs the red coats... not formalized / academic field tactics. Rednecks sniping the invaders from concealment. :grin
Coundn't the same be said about the Afgans against the Russians? :dunno

Agree it's a total fantasy but I'm sure John Conner would pull us all together. :grin
 

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One word: Colonists

They weren't highly-trained soldiers, either.

Again... we are debating a fantasy that could / would never happen. It would be guerilla warfare, just like the colonists vs the red coats... not formalized / academic field tactics. Rednecks sniping the invaders from concealment. :grin
They weren't highly trained, but the next invading force isn't going to be the brits standing in line formations to be sniped as in colonial days :grin
 

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One word: Colonists

They weren't highly-trained soldiers, either.

Again... we are debating a fantasy that could / would never happen. It would be guerilla warfare, just like the colonists vs the red coats... not formalized / academic field tactics. Rednecks sniping the invaders from concealment. :grin
Yes,
The colonists turned into Minute Men real quick, as the invading British found out the hard way..
 
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