[MPDC66]

Just went to a great presentation at our community club house. Collier Deputy (Sub Station Commander) Lt. Covered situations at High School active shooter situations and what was encountered and lessons learned. Essentially, Run (escape), move to cover (IF SUBSTANTIAL), hide and fight. The “fight” option is much simpler for CCW folks than others. Several participants outed themselves with “what if” questions re: liabilities for shooters. Frightening that some hadn’t a clue about SD laws and collateral damage liability, betraying a severe lack of training, practice and general skills needed to carry in the first place. I suspect some just obtained a license, a firearm and holster and formed heroic mental pictures of imagined situations.

Anyhoo………..

Without going through his entire presentation, takeaways I liked was statistics showing the big increase in total active shooter incidents (not just schools but also smaller situations) and the need to know life saving first aid measures for shooting victims. Chest wounds (lungs), arterial bleeds, compression and wound “stuffing” and use of tourniquet.

I realized that I needed to add several items to my range bag. Wound specific tourniquet, clotting compresses, and air blockers (I like Saran Wrap) .

Just a “Oh yeah!” Moment for me.

 

[fuzzy03cls]

I had to attend active shooting training last year. The points they were hammering were take cover, evade with an many as you can, & if you can't.... fight. Don't huddle in a corner, work out a plan. Many things can be weapons.

 

[MPDC66]

Yep, curling up like a fetus or “duck and cover” as preached for nuclear blasts are a death sentence for students in classrooms with a shooter. Also, in a locked classroom, hiding out of line of sight thru door’s window.

 

[mike1956]

The only worthwhile mass shooter training I ever attended dealt specifically with stopping the shooter as quickly as possible. Run, hide, fight, situational awareness, etc are no more than security theater, IMO.

 

[artemis]

Good to hear my home county is doing things like this. Where I live now, I don't think they've done much to educate the public on this despite the university here.

 

[BeerHunter]

When I was still DoD, we had to suffer through the "run, hide, fight" kabuki theater comedy show annually. Hated that I was always limited to improvised weapons to defend myself one I cleared the gates coming on base.

Glad to see some LEOs/LEAs getting more serious, but state and federal GFZ laws need to be repealed, too because they do jack schiznit to prevent criminals from perpetrating their crimes!

 

[Anduril]

Didn't one school teach students to throw hockey pucks at the shooter?
Even handed out the pucks? (probably on taxpayer dime?)

 

[mike1956]

Didn't one school teach students to throw hockey pucks at the shooter?
Even handed out the pucks? (probably on taxpayer dime?)

Rocks, prayer books, 2nd graders doing gang-tackling...examples abound.

 

[racer88]

Didn't one school teach students to throw hockey pucks at the shooter?
Even handed out the pucks? (probably on taxpayer dime?)

I recall they "installed" a 5-ga bucket of pucks in the classrooms. LOL!

 

[OHEng]

Didn't one school teach students to throw hockey pucks at the shooter?
Even handed out the pucks? (probably on taxpayer dime?)

Yeah, that was Oakland University in suburban Detroit, MI. They taught the students to throw hockey pucks at potential school shooter threats. I don't know about buckets of pucks but they spent over $2,500 buying enough pucks to issue two to each student. I suppose by now they've allocated funding for more.
No word on what to do if a school shooter shows up in goalie pads.

 

[mike1956]

US synagogues and facilities had fifty-four million dollars to spend on security measures. Not included in that was any mention of armed staff/congregants. I sat through Secure Community Network's on-line "training", and they refused to discuss the topic.

US synagogues ramp up security amid increasing anti-Semitic attacks

In partnership with U.S. Homeland Security Department, Jewish Federations of North America launches "LiveSecure" program to keep Jews safe from the threat of anti-Semitism and terrorism. Synagogues will install secure doors, surveillance cameras, and employ security guards as part of the program.

www.jns.org

 

[Riverpigusmc]

Glad I'm a member of a country cowboy church. Good luck finding someone that ain't armed

 

[brownie]

The only worthwhile mass shooter training I ever attended dealt specifically with stopping the shooter as quickly as possible. Run, hide, fight, situational awareness, etc are no more than security theater, IMO.

In the most efficient manner possible with another firearm in the hands of a trained person.

 

[mike1956]

In the most efficient manner possible with another firearm in the hands of a trained person.

The programs I'm most familiar with make a huge deal about what to do before it starts and what to do once it's over but do absolutely nothing in offering up anything to actually stop it. Build the fortress, watch some situational awareness videos, and call 911 when its over.

 

[mike1956]

Just went to a great presentation at our community club house. Collier Deputy (Sub Station Commander) Lt. Covered situations at High School active shooter situations and what was encountered and lessons learned. Essentially, Run (escape), move to cover (IF SUBSTANTIAL), hide and fight. The “fight” option is much simpler for CCW folks than others. Several participants outed themselves with “what if” questions re: liabilities for shooters. Frightening that some hadn’t a clue about SD laws and collateral damage liability, betraying a severe lack of training, practice and general skills needed to carry in the first place. I suspect some just obtained a license, a firearm and holster and formed heroic mental pictures of imagined situations.

Anyhoo………..

Without going through his entire presentation, takeaways I liked was statistics showing the big increase in total active shooter incidents (not just schools but also smaller situations) and the need to know life saving first aid measures for shooting victims. Chest wounds (lungs), arterial bleeds, compression and wound “stuffing” and use of tourniquet.

I realized that I needed to add several items to my range bag. Wound specific tourniquet, clotting compresses, and air blockers (I like Saran Wrap) .

Just a “Oh yeah!” Moment for me.

What made the presentation great beyond the stuff typically put out in run, hide, fight and stop the bleed?

 

[mike1956]

I had to attend active shooting training last year. The points they were hammering were take cover, evade with an many as you can, & if you can't.... fight. Don't huddle in a corner, work out a plan. Many things can be weapons.

How well do improvised weapons typically stand up against two-rounds-per-second ARs or semi-automatics?

 

[MPDC66]

What made the presentation great beyond the stuff typically put out in run, hide, fight and stop the bleed?

The fact the presenter was engaging older people who go to gatherings frequently and got them thinking and actively participating. Not everyone is an expert “gunslinger”. Also, reminded me that accidents happen and to review, renew and resupply my emergency stuff re: gunshot wounds and the need to practice techniques.
Even though you may find the information redundant or sophomoric, some may be stirred to actually remove their heads from their ani.

 

[mike1956]

The fact the presenter was engaging older people who go to gatherings frequently and got them thinking and actively participating. Not everyone is an expert “gunslinger”. Also, reminded me that accidents happen and to review, renew and resupply my emergency stuff re: gunshot wounds and the need to practice techniques.
Even though you may find the information redundant or sophomoric, some may be stirred to actually remove their heads from their ani.

Great, they got engaged. Did that make any of them any better equipped to effectively stop a mass shooter? I'm genuinely curious. Were they given any "fight" suggestions after getting beyond the run and hide mantras?

 

[MPDC66]

How well do improvised weapons typically stand up against two-rounds-per-second ARs or semi-automatics?

Better than curling up in a fetal position?

 

[MPDC66]

Great, they got engaged. Did that make any of them any better equipped to effectively stop a mass shooter? I'm genuinely curious. Were they given any "fight" suggestions after getting beyond the run and hide mantras?

Stopping a mass shooter wasn’t the point, I think. A CHANCE TO SURVIVE BY THINKING TO ACT RATHER THAN FREEZE AND ACCEPT was the message he conveyed. Gun people have different tactical options than teens or elderly. Are you trying to say there is no value in running, hiding or throwing something, absent a firearm? People should just curl up and die like many did in the Holocaust? There is no perfect answer to these situations, just less bad choices than surrendering to inevitable death. Freezing in place is the worst choice.

If you have better advice than the things offered, share it please. I’m serious, if I’m missing THE answer, verbalize it, please.