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So I know that you can not carry on school grounds but what if your Church is renting out the school auditorium for their regular services on Sunday. It is not sponsored by the county and fundementaly is actually a church for all reasonable purposes. What do you guys think???
 

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So I know that you can not carry on school grounds but what if your Church is renting out the school auditorium for their regular services on Sunday. It is not sponsored by the county and fundementaly is actually a church for all reasonable purposes. What do you guys think???
I'm sorry, but the State of Florida says, nope.

790.115 Possessing or discharging weapons or firearms at a school-sponsored event or on school property prohibited;

http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/SEC115.HTM&Title=->2008->Ch0790->Section%20115#0790.115

The 2008 Florida Statutes

Title XLVI
CRIMES Chapter 790
WEAPONS AND FIREARMS

790.115 Possessing or discharging weapons or firearms at a school-sponsored event or on school property prohibited; penalties; exceptions.--

(1) A person who exhibits any sword, sword cane, firearm, electric weapon or device, destructive device, or other weapon as defined in s. 790.001(13), including a razor blade, box cutter, or common pocketknife, except as authorized in support of school-sanctioned activities, in the presence of one or more persons in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner and not in lawful self-defense, at a school-sponsored event or on the grounds or facilities of any school, school bus, or school bus stop, or within 1,000 feet of the real property that comprises a public or private elementary school, middle school, or secondary school, during school hours or during the time of a sanctioned school activity, commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. This subsection does not apply to the exhibition of a firearm or weapon on private real property within 1,000 feet of a school by the owner of such property or by a person whose presence on such property has been authorized, licensed, or invited by the owner.

(2)(a) A person shall not possess any firearm, electric weapon or device, destructive device, or other weapon as defined in s. 790.001(13), including a razor blade or box cutter, except as authorized in support of school-sanctioned activities, at a school-sponsored event or on the property of any school, school bus, or school bus stop; however, a person may carry a firearm:

1. In a case to a firearms program, class or function which has been approved in advance by the principal or chief administrative officer of the school as a program or class to which firearms could be carried;

2. In a case to a career center having a firearms training range; or

3. In a vehicle pursuant to s. 790.25(5); except that school districts may adopt written and published policies that waive the exception in this subparagraph for purposes of student and campus parking privileges.

For the purposes of this section, "school" means any preschool, elementary school, middle school, junior high school, secondary school, career center, or postsecondary school, whether public or nonpublic.

(b) A person who willfully and knowingly possesses any electric weapon or device, destructive device, or other weapon as defined in s. 790.001(13), including a razor blade or box cutter, except as authorized in support of school-sanctioned activities, in violation of this subsection commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(c)1. A person who willfully and knowingly possesses any firearm in violation of this subsection commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

2. A person who stores or leaves a loaded firearm within the reach or easy access of a minor who obtains the firearm and commits a violation of subparagraph 1. commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083; except that this does not apply if the firearm was stored or left in a securely locked box or container or in a location which a reasonable person would have believed to be secure, or was securely locked with a firearm-mounted push-button combination lock or a trigger lock; if the minor obtains the firearm as a result of an unlawful entry by any person; or to members of the Armed Forces, National Guard, or State Militia, or to police or other law enforcement officers, with respect to firearm possession by a minor which occurs during or incidental to the performance of their official duties.

(d) A person who discharges any weapon or firearm while in violation of paragraph (a), unless discharged for lawful defense of himself or herself or another or for a lawful purpose, commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(e) The penalties of this subsection shall not apply to persons licensed under s. 790.06. Persons licensed under s. 790.06 shall be punished as provided in s. 790.06(12), except that a licenseholder who unlawfully discharges a weapon or firearm on school property as prohibited by this subsection commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(3) This section does not apply to any law enforcement officer as defined in s. 943.10(1), (2), (3), (4), (6), (7), (8), (9), or (14).

(4) Notwithstanding s. 985.24, s. 985.245, or s. 985.25(1), any minor under 18 years of age who is charged under this section with possessing or discharging a firearm on school property shall be detained in secure detention, unless the state attorney authorizes the release of the minor, and shall be given a probable cause hearing within 24 hours after being taken into custody. At the hearing, the court may order that the minor continue to be held in secure detention for a period of 21 days, during which time the minor shall receive medical, psychiatric, psychological, or substance abuse examinations pursuant to s. 985.18, and a written report shall be completed.
 

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What the SSGT said. A school is a school, regardless of the activity.

Heck, there's a Pastor on this forum that cannot carry in his own church (place of bidness) because it meets at a school.
 

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I really need to look into this some more. My church has one building that is used for a pre-school program that meets during the week. The buildings are used by the church on Sundays and that is their primary purpose. So we are not a church on school grounds but rather have a school that meets on church grounds.

I've just started conversations Elders about putting together a security team so I need to know where we stand on a legal basis. Looks like more money for the lawyers.
 

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I've just started conversations Elders about putting together a security team so I need to know where we stand on a legal basis. Looks like more money for the lawyers.
The Christian Law Association will answer your legal question for free. Their phone number is (727) 399-8300. Their website is www.christianlaw.org I hope this helps. :D
 

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I really need to look into this some more. My church has one building that is used for a pre-school program that meets during the week. The buildings are used by the church on Sundays and that is their primary purpose. So we are not a church on school grounds but rather have a school that meets on church grounds.

I've just started conversations Elders about putting together a security team so I need to know where we stand on a legal basis. Looks like more money for the lawyers.
Now that is a good question. The only problem that I see you may have is this section ....

For the purposes of this section, "school" means any preschool, elementary school, middle school, junior high school, secondary school, career center, or postsecondary school, whether public or nonpublic.
Please keep us posted as to what you find out. :drinks
 

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Now that is a good question. The only problem that I see you may have is this section ....

For the purposes of this section, "school" means any preschool, elementary school, middle school, junior high school, secondary school, career center, or postsecondary school, whether public or nonpublic.

Please keep us posted as to what you find out. :drinks
That defines the meaning of school and in our case the preschool (3 & 4 yr olds) may fit that definition.

The issue arises from the fact that the preschool is a separate entity and only meets on weekdays. They don't own the property nor do they pay rent for the use of the building. I have no idea how the lawyers would read this but I'm hoping for the best.

I'll keep every one informed.
 

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I really need to look into this some more. My church has one building that is used for a pre-school program that meets during the week. The buildings are used by the church on Sundays and that is their primary purpose. So we are not a church on school grounds but rather have a school that meets on church grounds.

I've just started conversations Elders about putting together a security team so I need to know where we stand on a legal basis. Looks like more money for the lawyers.
My attorney has checked with a friend of his who is a member of the NRA and a state attorney working out of Tallahassee.

Their best guess (no case law, so no precedent) is that carrying on the portion of the church grounds where the school is located would be against FL during the time when the school meets and the teachers are present.

Thus, my office, the sanctuary and other places where they do not go during the week would, in theory, be legal.

Now, they could be wrong. And a zealous prosecutor or one with an agenda could well choose otherwise and decide to prosecute.

I choose at this point not to carry anywhere on campus when school is in session and the teachers are present. The rest of the day, another story.

Sorry, no more help than that. I'll contribute $20 to the first volunteer to be a test case. Oh, yeah, and I'll pray for you.

By the way, I am the Senior Pastor.
 

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My attorney has checked with a friend of his who is a member of the NRA and a state attorney working out of Tallahassee.

Their best guess (no case law, so no precedent) is that carrying on the portion of the church grounds where the school is located would be against FL during the time when the school meets and the teachers are present.

Thus, my office, the sanctuary and other places where they do not go during the week would, in theory, be legal.

Now, they could be wrong. And a zealous prosecutor or one with an agenda could well choose otherwise and decide to prosecute.

I choose at this point not to carry anywhere on campus when school is in session and the teachers are present. The rest of the day, another story.

Sorry, no more help than that. I'll contribute $20 to the first volunteer to be a test case. Oh, yeah, and I'll pray for you.

By the way, I am the Senior Pastor.
I wonder if there is anything preventing you from designating yourself as the church/school's 'Security Director', although you may need to obtain a "G" license to do so.

As a practical matter, I think that any prosecutor who went after a church minister for protecting his flock would have a very short political career in this state. :rolleyes:
 

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My attorney has checked with a friend of his who is a member of the NRA and a state attorney working out of Tallahassee.

Their best guess (no case law, so no precedent) is that carrying on the portion of the church grounds where the school is located would be against FL during the time when the school meets and the teachers are present.

Thus, my office, the sanctuary and other places where they do not go during the week would, in theory, be legal.

Now, they could be wrong. And a zealous prosecutor or one with an agenda could well choose otherwise and decide to prosecute.

I choose at this point not to carry anywhere on campus when school is in session and the teachers are present. The rest of the day, another story.

Sorry, no more help than that. I'll contribute $20 to the first volunteer to be a test case. Oh, yeah, and I'll pray for you.

By the way, I am the Senior Pastor.
That is pretty much what I figured but it would be nice to get a definitive answer. If there is no prior case law then it will probably be up to the LEO and prosecutor and that could go either way.
 

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Or you could always take the risk of becoming a test case and a new chapter in Gutmacher's next book? :D

-JT
I am crazy, but not stupid.

Mostly.

Usually.

Would you believe, sometimes?
 

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Hey, I never said it was a good idea.

:D

=JT
But the good thing about it would be getting to meet Mr. Gutmacher!
Not the cheapest way to meet him....but you would get to see his s**t in action!!!!
 

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Hey "Bob", who let you on here???

Looks like we need to do a better job of reaching out to the LEO's!

One "promises" to come with his fam tomorrow.
Senior PackingPastor+1 (when we're not at the school)
 

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I wonder if there is anything preventing you from designating yourself as the church/school's 'Security Director', although you may need to obtain a "G" license to do so.
" Bahdges?? We don' need no stinkin' "bahdges"!! :rolf

 

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MiklColt45,
If you feel comforatable sharing, what church do you pastor?
I'm at Coastal Community Church in Sebastian. We meet in the Sebastian River Middle School.
 
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