[CRIMPS]

So I have a question I'm sure a few of you could answer.

I have a completely enclosed and attached pool enclosure on my home. 3/4 of the area is screen ceiling above the pool and the other 1/4 is a connected attached porch with a roof. There are sliding glass doors that lead inside the house from this area.

Is this area considered part of your "dwelling" and would you have the protection of 776.013 if you used (or threatened) deadly force on the patio?

The part of the statute that is misleading is the part that states "and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night".




776.013 Home protection; use or threatened use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.–

(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using or threatening to use defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used or threatened was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
(b) The person who uses or threatens to use defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(5) As used in this section, the term:
(a) “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night.
(b) “Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest.
(c) “Vehicle” means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.

 

[notalawyer]

So I have a question I'm sure a few of you could answer.

I have a completely enclosed and attached pool enclosure on my home. 3/4 of the area is screen ceiling above the pool and the other 1/4 is a connected attached porch with a roof. There are sliding glass doors that lead inside the house from this area.

Is this area considered part of your "dwelling" and would you have the protection of 776.013 if you used (or threatened) deadly force on the patio?

The part of the statute that is misleading is the part that states "and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night".




776.013 Home protection; use or threatened use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.–

(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using or threatening to use defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used or threatened was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
(b) The person who uses or threatens to use defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(5) As used in this section, the term:
(a) “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night.
(b) “Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest.
(c) “Vehicle” means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.

"including any attached porch"

 

[CRIMPS]

"including any attached porch"

Yes, I get that part. But it also states "and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night".......is a "porch" designed for lodging at night

lodg·ing
ˈläjiNG/Submit
noun
a place in which someone lives or stays temporarily.
"they found a cheap lodging in a backstreet"
a room or rooms rented out to someone, usually in the same residence as the owner.


I really enjoy your thoughtful detailed responses to everyone else. They are always quite helpful. I'm not sure why you give me these types of responses?

 

[Pirate]

Yes, I get that part. But it also states "and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night".......is a "porch" designed for lodging at night

lodg·ing
ˈläjiNG/Submit
noun
a place in which someone lives or stays temporarily.
"they found a cheap lodging in a backstreet"
a room or rooms rented out to someone, usually in the same residence as the owner.


I really enjoy your thoughtful detailed responses to everyone else. They are always quite helpful. I'm not sure why you give me these types of responses?

He gave you that response because yes it falls under that statute. If they have to use force to enter....... And yes you can sleep on your porch if you like. My neighbor passes out on his all the time.

 

[CRIMPS]

He gave you that response because yes it falls under that statute. If they have to use force to enter....... And yes you can sleep on your porch if you like. My neighbor passes out on his all the time.

I don't think it is as simple as that.

First of all, to get to my porch you have to go through a screen door that is unlocked. Is that considered forceable entry.

Second, just because someone can sleep on their porch doesn't mean the porch was designed for people to lodge there at night.

Not trying to be contentious, just want clarification.....

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

 

[Pirate]

May I ask where you did your concealed training at? A simple opening of a door is considered forced entry i.e. using force by pushing a button and pulling open the door. Now walking through an already open doorway is not considered forced entry. And if all else fails, Google is a grrrrreal tool.

 

[Zeroed4x]

Even if my front door is unlocked, walk in uninvited, leave in a rubber bag.

 

[OHEng]

(a) “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night.

The "designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night" describes "a building or conveyance of any kind," NOT just the attachment.

Take out all the other modifiers and you could read the sentence like this:

“Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, that is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night. Included in the meaning of "dwelling" is any attached porch.

 

[deadeyedick]

I'm not sure what the quandary is...it says right in the statute "any attached porch". :dunno

 

[collegeboy]

The degree to which specificity is missing from the laws our legislators write, is staggering.

 

[notalawyer]

Yes, I get that part. But it also states "and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night".......is a "porch" designed for lodging at night

lodg·ing
ˈläjiNG/Submit
noun
a place in which someone lives or stays temporarily.
"they found a cheap lodging in a backstreet"
a room or rooms rented out to someone, usually in the same residence as the owner.


I really enjoy your thoughtful detailed responses to everyone else. They are always quite helpful. I'm not sure why you give me these types of responses?

:sorry I was just running out of the house to pick up the grand kids from school and I was late....:drinks

"Dwelling" means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night.

Should be read as: "Dwelling" means a building or conveyance of any kind (including any attached porch) which has a roof over it and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, including a tent.

I really, really, really, really, hate run on sentences, with multiple commas, they make this confusing!


ETA: On second thought, I'm not positive the porch has to have a roof, but the dwelling must.

ETA2: But then again, that only becomes important if one is relying solely on 776.013 for their defense and not 776.012 or 776.031.

 

[notalawyer]

The degree to which specificity is missing from the laws our legislators write, is staggering.

:thumsup

Clarity too.

 

[Mac45]

As has been noted, the statute is not real clear on the subject of porches which are separated from the main structure by any type of barrier and which can be entered without opening a door which is affixed to the structure and which bars entry to the porch when closed. In this case the pool enclosure does not have a complete roof. Therefor, the area which is not under a solid roof may not be considered part of the "porch". The area under the solid roof would be considered a porch, but, as it is not separated from the non-porch section, by a barrier, and is separated from the main structure by closing and locking barriers, this could present a problem if a person standing in this area was shot, without other factors being present. Such additional factors would be whether the doors separating the porch from the main house were open or closed. Whether the subject gives any indication that he intends to enter the main house. If the intruder is armed with a distances weapon, which could be used against the resident inside the main house. If the answers to these questions are closed, no and no, then the use of deadly force, against this subject, may not be lawful. If the use of deadly force is not lawful, then neither is the threatened use of deadly force.

So, good luck if you find yourself in this situation. You pays your money and you takes your chances.:dunno