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Discussion Starter #1
I'm guessing the "P" stood for "Provisional" and the "F" stands for Final?

http://blog.silencershop.com/overview-of-atf-41p/

I’ll be the first to admit that we didn’t think 41P would happen at all; but, as everyone now knows, it was approved (with some modifications) as ATF 41F earlier this week.
Unless the NFA Branch switches to electronic fingerprint submission (which the ATF 41F ruling says it isn’t ready for), then eForms will become irrelevant for Form 1 trust & corporation submissions once the rule goes into effect.
So eForms are pretty much offline after this.
 

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Once you receive an approval under the new rules, you’ll be exempted from having to submit fingerprint cards or passport photos again for 2 years from the date of the most recent approval. (We’re still digging into how, exactly, this will be implemented.)
So does that mean if you don't buy anything for two years you'll have to send in a current photo and fingerprint card?
And do this every two years forever if you never buy anything else?


And as aggressive as the govt is in seeking our guns and limiting the ability to acquire if all I have to do now on top of the normal NFA process is send in a photo and fingerprint card I guess I'm ok with that. I'll still use the trust because it protects them legally and saves them for my son to inherit.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Say the rule kicks in in July 2016. You buy something around the same time. You'll submit your Form 4, the applicable trust paperwork, along with photos, fingerprint cards, and the 5330.20 form for each responsible party on your trust.

If you buy something 3 months later, the only thing you have to send up is the Form 4 & the 5330.20 forms for each responsible party.

Then if you wait two years from that date, you have to submit new photos and fingerprint cards in addition to the usual paperwork all over again.

I guess if you bought an NFA item every year, you would never have to submit new photos and cards?
 

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But if you think about it for a second.
E Forms was an effort to bring the NFA process into the 21st century making things things quicker and easier as well as electronic.
Now with photos and prints needing to be submitted they are either taking a major step backward in the process or will be forced to accept digital submission of both. Where are they going to store all these prints and photos everyone keeps submitting?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
But if you think about it for a second.
E Forms was an effort to bring the NFA process into the 21st century making things things quicker and easier as well as electronic.
Now with photos and prints needing to be submitted they are either taking a major step backward in the process or will be forced to accept digital submission of both. Where are they going to store all these prints and photos everyone keeps submitting?
Same warehouse where they stored the Lost Ark, I guess?



But seriously, didn't they think that this would result in a huge upswing in paperwork? Especially now since a lot of people on the fence about NFA items, due to the cost of getting a trust set up on top of the $200 tax and the item cost, will be able to file as individuals and just tell the local CLEO that there's not a dang thing he can do about it?

I sure hope they intend on allowing digital submissions. However, that is another mess, in order to keep things on an even keel, I'm guessing they'll only accept digital images from an accredited vendor. Can someone say, 'kickback'?
 

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Well, found the company that'll probably get the kickback.

http://www.biometrics4all.com
FOIL HAT: ON

in having to submit prints and photos they may accept digital submissions so that those photos could be uploaded to security/camera systems that will in the future allow them to easily locate you. Facial recognition hooked into the security system in Starbucks in Seattle will ID you and let them know exactly where you are should you ever need to be found.

Maybe?
 

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FOIL HAT: ON

in having to submit prints and photos they may accept digital submissions so that those photos could be uploaded to security/camera systems that will in the future allow them to easily locate you. Facial recognition hooked into the security system in Starbucks in Seattle will ID you and let them know exactly where you are should you ever need to be found.

Maybe?
They already have digitized photos from everyone with a DL (or ID card) - well not everyone quite yet, but that will correct itself in a year or two - along with digitized birth certificates, SS cards and whatever else you had to submit when getting you Real ID-compliant DL/ID.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
FOIL HAT: ON

in having to submit prints and photos they may accept digital submissions so that those photos could be uploaded to security/camera systems that will in the future allow them to easily locate you. Facial recognition hooked into the security system in Starbucks in Seattle will ID you and let them know exactly where you are should you ever need to be found.

Maybe?
It isn't too far of a stretch. Right now, biometric companies are working hard to do a Minority Report-style system so marketers can target you when you enter a store. The store displays suddenly switch to show you things you like when you enter, that sort of thing. They really don't think of the Feds at first when they do these things. Heck, I've already put a few beacons around some of the venues we own which send custom messages to returning customers' phones when they enter the premises.

One of my fears about the NFA system is that we're all beta-testing a future registration scheme for guns in general. Well, if that's the case, we're proving such a scheme would never work. The Feds have issues with the few million NFA items out there, how would they handle a few hundred million?

But yeah, imagine this - your likeness is digitized, and companies can hook into it. Suddenly you're banned from IKEA because you may or may not have a gun on you, but IKEA has access to the Fed's facial database and when you entered, it ran a query and got a hit. No Klerjöppøer for you!
 

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But yeah, imagine this - your likeness is digitized, and companies can hook into it. Suddenly you're banned from IKEA because you may or may not have a gun on you, but IKEA has access to the Fed's facial database and when you entered, it ran a query and got a hit. No Klerjöppøer for you!
No Klerjöppøer for me.... no $$$ for them! Enough of US get permitted, and we could bankrupt them!!! At least in the USA! :grin
 

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Haven't you noticed that when you swipe your credit card or debit card at the gas station the indicator light blinks on the type of fuel you usually buy..before you actually flipped the lever. System already knows from previous fill ups.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Haven't you noticed that when you swipe your credit card or debit card at the gas station the indicator light blinks on the type of fuel you usually buy..before you actually flipped the lever. System already knows from previous fill ups.
I'll look when I fill up today. If the "93" light blinks...wow. Not surprising, but wow...
 
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