Post 41F, are you doing the NFA dance?
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  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Post 41F, are you doing the NFA dance?

    Compare to the pre-41F rush, suppressor sales are down from what I can tell.

    Is anyone here purchasing NFA items these days? I'm specifically wondering about post-41F purchases, not pre-41F stuff that's in the queue.

    I'm not. Two reasons though.

    - Getting married in October. All large purchases on hold. My other half loves guns and gives me carte blanche with buying them, but not at the moment.

    - CLEO notification bugs the heck out of me. I want clarification on what happens to the notifications. To be honest I'd like to see that provision removed entirely.

    That being said, the only NFA items that really interest me are suppressors and machine guns. And DDs I guess.

    I'm not sold on SBRs since there's plenty of "pistol" options nowadays that get you most of the way there. Spending $200 extra (plus the wait time & registration) to put a stock on a 10" AR just doesn't seem right when you can put one of the braces on and "get it on the green". Heck, there's adjustable braces out there now that pass ATF muster.
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    Distinguished Member AFJuvat's Avatar
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    I got all mine in before 41F. Mainly because getting all the trustees together for pictures and prints is a pain.

    The police are supposed to destroy notifications after 6 months by law. Notifications are no big deal. I have a FFL03, so the CLEO notification isn't new, all FFL applications have that requirement.

    41F essentially killed the NFA trust industry by removing the CLEO sign off.
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    Distinguished Member 7.62Kolectr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFJuvat View Post
    I got all mine in before 41F. Mainly because getting all the trustees together for pictures and prints is a pain.

    The police are supposed to destroy notifications after 6 months by law. Notifications are no big deal. I have a FFL03, so the CLEO notification isn't new, all FFL applications have that requirement.

    41F essentially killed the NFA trust industry by removing the CLEO sign off.
    I'm planning on making a purchase here soon on another SBR. A 12 inch 5.56.
    I am the sole trustee on my trust. I only have beneficiaries listed and they are not considered responsible parties.
    As a result of that I only need my pic and prints. No biggie. I still prefer the trust because if I pass they easily go to my heirs.
    There will be no mother (mine ) involved in trying to prevent my prince from inheriting the Kings Arsenal of Liberty.

    AF would you mind PM'ing me a sanitary sample CLEO notification letter that you use?
    I'm interested to see how it's worded.
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    Distinguished Member BrianB's Avatar
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    Hi Todd. I know you asked AF, but since CLEO notification is also required for FFL renewals I have to send a notification to the Sheriff every 3 years and I figured I'd post my template. It's short, sweet, and to the point:

    Sheriff Bob Gualtieri
    10750 Ulmerton Road
    Largo, FL 33778

    Sheriff Gualtieri:

    Enclosed you will find a copy of my Federal Firearms License renewal application. I am required by law to send a copy of this application to the Chief Law Enforcement Officer for my jurisdiction. No action is expected nor required on your part.

    Sincerely,


    My Name
    Owner, My D/B/A

    The main point of the letter is to make it clear that he isn't expected to do anything with the enclosed copy. He doesn't need to approve it, respond to it, or do anything else with it - I'm just required to send him a copy.

    I've been using that template for my CLEO notifications for decades.
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    Distinguished Member 7.62Kolectr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianB View Post
    Hi Todd. I know you asked AF, but since CLEO notification is also required for FFL renewals I have to send a notification to the Sheriff every 3 years and I figured I'd post my template. It's short, sweet, and to the point:

    Sheriff Bob Gualtieri
    10750 Ulmerton Road
    Largo, FL 33778

    Sheriff Gualtieri:

    Enclosed you will find a copy of my BATF Form 4 SBR application. I am required by law to send a copy of this application to the Chief Law Enforcement Officer for my jurisdiction. No action is expected nor required on your part.

    Sincerely,


    John Smith
    Executor of the JS TRUST

    The main point of the letter is to make it clear that he isn't expected to do anything with the enclosed copy. He doesn't need to approve it, respond to it, or do anything else with it - I'm just required to send him a copy.

    I've been using that template for my CLEO notifications for decades.
    So than if I change it to the above it should work?
    And is it just the letter or do I need to send him a copy of the trust as well since that will technically be who's applying for it?
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    Distinguished Member BrianB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7.62Kolectr View Post
    So than if I change it to the above it should work?
    And is it just the letter or do I need to send him a copy of the trust as well since that will technically be who's applying for it?
    Instead of saying "BATF Form 4 SBR application" I would say "copy of my Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of Firearm". He may not know what an SBR is and that's the name of the form. Also, I don't know much about trusts - are you the "Executor" of the trust or a "Trustee" of the trust? I thought an "Executor" was a "will" thing (like last will and testament thing). But I'm not an attorney of any kind, and certainly not an estate planning attorney, so whatever the document says your title is would be best I suppose.

    Otherwise it looks fine to me. Regarding what else to send in addition to the letter, here's what the instructions for the Form 4 say:

    Law Enforcement Notification. The transferee must provide a copy of the Form 4 to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) who has jurisdiction over the area of the transferee's address shown in item 2a of the Form 4. In addition, if the transferee is other than an individual, a copy of the Form 5320.23, National Firearms Act (NFA) Responsible Person Questionnaire, completed by each responsible person must be provided to their respective chief law enforcement officer. The chief law enforcement officer is considered to be the Chief of Police; the Sheriff; the Head of the State Police; or a State or local district attorney or prosecutor.

    So it would seem you need to send:

    1. The letter
    2. A copy of the Form 4
    3. A copy of the 5320.23 for those responsible persons who live in the jursdiction of this particular CLEO


    If there were many responsible persons, and if they did not all live in the jurisdiction of the same CLEO, it sounds like only the Responsible Person Questionnaire would have to go to the other CLEOs (for areas other than the jurisdiction for the address in 2a). Since you're the sole trustee that's not an issue for you - but might be for some other trusts.

    Hope that helps.
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    Distinguished Member 7.62Kolectr's Avatar
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    I guess the correct term would be im the 'Trustor'?
    I drew it up, it's in my name. No other trustees or anyone is allowed to touch and borrow or use anything on it.
    I simply have my son as the sole beneficiary with wife as guardian until he's old enough to own them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFJuvat View Post

    The police are supposed to destroy notifications after 6 months by law.
    That's great news...

    Where can I find this statute?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianB View Post
    Instead of saying "BATF Form 4 SBR application" I would say "copy of my Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of Firearm". He may not know what an SBR is and that's the name of the form. Also, I don't know much about trusts - are you the "Executor" of the trust or a "Trustee" of the trust? I thought an "Executor" was a "will" thing (like last will and testament thing). But I'm not an attorney of any kind, and certainly not an estate planning attorney, so whatever the document says your title is would be best I suppose.

    Otherwise it looks fine to me. Regarding what else to send in addition to the letter, here's what the instructions for the Form 4 say:

    Law Enforcement Notification. The transferee must provide a copy of the Form 4 to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) who has jurisdiction over the area of the transferee's address shown in item 2a of the Form 4. In addition, if the transferee is other than an individual, a copy of the Form 5320.23, National Firearms Act (NFA) Responsible Person Questionnaire, completed by each responsible person must be provided to their respective chief law enforcement officer. The chief law enforcement officer is considered to be the Chief of Police; the Sheriff; the Head of the State Police; or a State or local district attorney or prosecutor.

    So it would seem you need to send:

    1. The letter
    2. A copy of the Form 4
    3. A copy of the 5320.23 for those responsible persons who live in the jursdiction of this particular CLEO


    If there were many responsible persons, and if they did not all live in the jurisdiction of the same CLEO, it sounds like only the Responsible Person Questionnaire would have to go to the other CLEOs (for areas other than the jurisdiction for the address in 2a). Since you're the sole trustee that's not an issue for you - but might be for some other trusts.

    Hope that helps.
    2 copies Form 4
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    2 fingerprint cards per responsible person
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    The new form 4 has an extra copy for the local CLEO.
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    In theory could we just send it to the head of FDLE?

    2 things about that:

    - State cop isn't likely to care if someone 400 miles away bought a suppressor.

    - Easier to prosecute if it is found the state CLEO isn't abiding by the destruction requirement AFJuvat noted.
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