41P is coming, who do we lobby for "shall certify"? - Page 2
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Thread: 41P is coming, who do we lobby for "shall certify"?

  1. #11
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    Who knows, maybe this will usher in getting cans off of the NFA? The most popular NFA item is the suppressor, and with the reams of paperwork being generated, especially now that people in NFA-hostile jurisdictions can just do an individual filing, rather than incur the expense of a trust on top of everything else?

    Again, the model of getting them off of the NFA, while keeping the tax intact (for now), bears a lot of merit. Maybe the Hearing Protection bill can be adjusted a little to give it more chance of passing...

  2. #12
    Super Moderator Rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pod View Post
    Who knows, maybe this will usher in getting cans off of the NFA? The most popular NFA item is the suppressor, and with the reams of paperwork being generated, especially now that people in NFA-hostile jurisdictions can just do an individual filing, rather than incur the expense of a trust on top of everything else?

    Again, the model of getting them off of the NFA, while keeping the tax intact (for now), bears a lot of merit. Maybe the Hearing Protection bill can be adjusted a little to give it more chance of passing...
    If they are removed from the NFA, there would be no tax. No different than buying a lower.
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  3. #13
    Distinguished Member ctsheepdog's Avatar
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    Irony: Great Britain has far greater restrictions on civilian gun ownership that the US, yet far more liberal treatment of suppressors. Go figure.
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  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rvrctyrngr View Post
    If they are removed from the NFA, there would be no tax. No different than buying a lower.
    I know, but my suggestion is to take them off the NFA and leave the tax intact (for now...) as a way to sweeten the deal. Run it as a specially-taxed item (like cigarettes or booze) and then worry about the tax down the line.

    Bit by bit so they don't notice.

  6. #15
    Distinguished Member 7.62Kolectr's Avatar
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    So does all that legal mumbo jumbo mean I can still buy stuff in same fashion?
    Form 4 in duplicate, $200 check and a copy of my trust in the mail to ATF?

    Or 180 days from now and then forward I do same as above plus send a letter/form supposedly notifying my CLEO of my intent to purchase?
    What else am I missing if that's even right?
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  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blanca Busa View Post
    So does all that legal mumbo jumbo mean I can still buy stuff in same fashion?
    Form 4 in duplicate, $200 check and a copy of my trust in the mail to ATF?

    Or 180 days from now and then forward I do same as above plus send a letter/form supposedly notifying my CLEO of my intent to purchase?
    What else am I missing if that's even right?
    The photos and fingerprints of all responsible parties on the trust. You need to talk to your attorney to figure out who those people are.

    180 days from now here's how I think it will all work for Form 4 if you are an individual.

    Idea: Get a set of photos and fingerprint cards ahead of time. Like 4 or 5 done.

    Go to shop with item you want in it.
    Fill out Form 4 with photos & fingerprint card.
    Pay for item.
    Shop sends off the package to the NFA branch.
    They do whatever they do (I don't think it'll include a background check anymore?).
    Paperwork comes back.
    You undergo a NICS check at the shop and take your item home.
    You then send a copy of the "NFA Questionnaire" to your local CLEO.

    Trust is the same except you include your trust paperwork in the packet sent to the NFA Branch and you'll need to send the info/photos of all responsible persons in with it.

    The only thing I'm not clear on is the background check. Is Martinsburg not doing them anymore, and shifting the workload to the FFL exclusively? Obviously it has to occur somewhere.

  8. #17
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    What is any of this going to do to reduce crime? How will any of this stop the bad guys from getting any weapon they want? Laws don't mean sheet to the bad guys.

  9. #18
    Member TMF's Avatar
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    What are the stats on registered NFA items, trust or otherwise, being used in a crime? Yet tightening the process to legally register those items will make the "children" safer?

  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMF View Post
    What are the stats on registered NFA items, trust or otherwise, being used in a crime? Yet tightening the process to legally register those items will make the "children" safer?
    I think an NFA machine gun has been used twice in the commission of a crime since the NFA was instituted.
    Crimes using registered suppressors and SBRs and so on are so statistically insignificant it's not worth talking about.

    Now, here's the catch, especially with SBRs and SBS - criminals will take normal Title 1 firearms and saw down the barrel on occasion. I doubt they are sending a Form 1 to Martinsburg and waiting for the stamp to come back.

    The old trope about the "sawed-off shotgun", basically. But even then, those crimes are insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Why is a thug going to chop down a shotgun when a pistol will do the job he wants?

    The NFA itself was a knee-jerk reaction to a small spate of crime in the 1920s & 1930s, where in only a few instances were the items the NFA covered used. It was an early example of "doing something".

    The government knew they couldn't revoke the 2nd, so they figured out a way around it. Initially the NFA was to demand registration and taxation of all firearms, actually, which would have led to a de facto ban since $200 back then was a lot of money. The "compromise" was to restrict some items under the guise of "doing something". SBRs, SBS, machine guns, and (inexplicably) suppressors.

  11. #20
    Distinguished Member zukinut's Avatar
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    SO then the trust I have but have not used yet will still be able to used? I won't need a amendment to it?
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