Atty who did my NFA trust has been suspended. Is my trust still valid? - Page 3
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Thread: Atty who did my NFA trust has been suspended. Is my trust still valid?

  1. #21
    I was not WTHing you. I was WTHing others that seem to have it in their heads that a Trust is filed with the State or County. It is not !
    Your post #18 refenced Colledgeboys inference that they are Filed. Hence my responce that some one please let us know if they have ever tried to get a Copy from a State or County Agency. It was formed as a question to get others to think about the process..!

    The ATF may or may not keep a copy. It may be that an Agent just checks off that the Trust was correct and moves the process along. I do not know or care what their internal process is. Not one time in any previous post did I use the Words: Federal Govt, Feds, or ATF.

    I believe we are in agreement.

  2. #22
    Distinguished Member 7.62Kolectr's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure Martinsburg kept a copy each time I applied for a stamp.
    All ATF did was kindly remove and cash my check then forward packet to them for processing.
    I may be wrong. But I don't care. As many calls to fdle dealers have made on me if they are keeping a file on me it has got to be 100 terabytes in size.
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  3. #23
    Distinguished Member TitleIIToyLover's Avatar
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    Trust Law varies by State. In the State of Florida a trust is not recorded, it is simply executed using the same rules as a will. Martinsburg sends a copy of your trust to the legal team at ATF to verify that it is a valid trust in the eyes of ATF. It is my understanding that a digital copy of the trust is stored as part of the registry.

    In as much as a trust can be amended and there is no requirement to notify Martinsburg of any changes, you current trust may not match the trust associated with the registry. In fact you can "re-state" at trust. In other words you can use the same trust name and substitute completely new trust language.

    Once your trust owns NFA items, it must remain valid in accordance with the laws as they apply to the trust in accordance with the State in which it was executed. In fact, that is one of the most common reasons that a trust is not valid. The trust must enumerate the State the trust was executed in so that we know what State laws apply - IE:

    This Trust Agreement shall be construed, regulated and governed by and in accordance with the laws of the State of Florida.

    That is not meant to be argumentative, just my two cents for what it is worth.

    It is also not legal advice.

    Just Sayin!
    Last edited by TitleIIToyLover; 05-25-2015 at 04:07 PM.
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  5. #24
    Distinguished Member MPDC66's Avatar
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    Working the "float", also known as "kitting". Hope it isn't found true. Kind of like what Bernie Madoff did on a grand scale.
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  6. #25
    Distinguished Member brownie's Avatar
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    He's only been suspended, not disbarred. HUGE difference. Based on the investigations findings, the Board of Bar Overseers may disbar him at that time from every practicing in Fla again.
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  7. #26
    Distinguished Member 7.62Kolectr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownie View Post
    He's only been suspended, not disbarred. HUGE difference. Based on the investigations findings, the Board of Bar Overseers may disbar him at that time from every practicing in Fla again.
    I didn't realize I could correct title as well?
    It's fixed now. You're right.
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  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number1gun View Post
    I was not WTHing you. I was WTHing others that seem to have it in their heads that a Trust is filed with the State or County. It is not !
    Your post #18 refenced Colledgeboys inference that they are Filed. Hence my responce that some one please let us know if they have ever tried to get a Copy from a State or County Agency. It was formed as a question to get others to think about the process..!

    The ATF may or may not keep a copy. It may be that an Agent just checks off that the Trust was correct and moves the process along. I do not know or care what their internal process is. Not one time in any previous post did I use the Words: Federal Govt, Feds, or ATF.

    I believe we are in agreement.

    My mistake -

    I was not aware that NFA Trusts are not recorded at the County Clerk's Office in Florida (until I read 'TitleIIToyLover's post - Post #23). Giving it more thought, it makes sense that Trusts intended for, and created in response to, ATF regulations would have entirely different procedures. My only experience with trusts in Florida is with regard to a Family Trust - which did have to be recorded at the County Clerk's Office before it was valid.

    Hope my confusion on the difference in treatment of NFA Trusts and other Trusts didn't cause you too much consternation.

    For the OP - my only point re: 'the check clearing' was to point out that I don't think the agency receiving the payment (whether that was the County Clerk's Office or the ATF) would be concerned, or even know, what account or funds it was written against. As long as the check from your attorney could be cashed, and the funds were there to cover it, they would complete their processing. Now we all know who you would need to check with to see if your trust is in effect and valid - if that is still a concern for you.
    Last edited by collegeboy; 05-25-2015 at 08:03 PM.
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  9. #28
    Distinguished Member 7.62Kolectr's Avatar
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    My concern was kinda along the lines of when one dna test is found to have been tainted than all others that went thru same office/person are the thrown out and folks are set free sometimes as a result.

    So I was just wondering if he is found to be culpable in this instance does it make invalid any or all of his previous actions?
    That's the thought I had.
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  10. #29
    Distinguished Member TitleIIToyLover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blanca Busa View Post
    My concern was kinda along the lines of when one dna test is found to have been tainted than all others that went thru same office/person are the thrown out and folks are set free sometimes as a result.

    So I was just wondering if he is found to be culpable in this instance does it make invalid any or all of his previous actions?
    That's the thought I had.
    Each and every document he drafted would stand on it's own. Just because he is accused of playing fast and loose with some money does not mean that he was not capable of drafting a simple trust. If the trust contained the elements required by statute, was executed property and funded, then it is a valid trust. If you have any concerns then you may want to have it reviewed by another attorney. If the primary purpose of the trust was to own NFA items, I would not worry about it. If the trust was drafted primarily as an estate planning document and you expect it to transfer you guns to you heirs then it is always wise to review you estate planning document periodically. This might be a good time to find an estate planning attorney and review all of your plans.

    My point is that a RLT drafted to hold NFA items is a VERY simple instrument. The same RLT drafted to provide for minor children and establish subsequent trusts for their education and hold real estate can be 30 pages in length and very complex. Florida even has a pet trust to take care of your cats once you die. A RLT is a RLT but it's purpose will dictate the complexity.

    Just Sayin!
    Last edited by TitleIIToyLover; 05-25-2015 at 09:32 PM.
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  11. #30
    Distinguished Member TitleIIToyLover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by collegeboy View Post
    My mistake -

    I was not aware that NFA Trusts are not recorded at the County Clerk's Office in Florida (until I read 'TitleIIToyLover's post - Post #23). Giving it more thought, it makes sense that Trusts intended for, and created in response to, ATF regulations would have entirely different procedures. My only experience with trusts in Florida is with regard to a Family Trust - which did have to be recorded at the County Clerk's Office before it was valid.

    Hope my confusion on the difference in treatment of NFA Trusts and other Trusts didn't cause you too much consternation.

    For the OP - my only point re: 'the check clearing' was to point out that I don't think the agency receiving the payment (whether that was the County Clerk's Office or the ATF) would be concerned, or even know, what account or funds it was written against. As long as the check from your attorney could be cashed, and the funds were there to cover it, they would complete their processing. Now we all know who you would need to check with to see if your trust is in effect and valid - if that is still a concern for you.
    All conveyances of real property in Florida must be made by written instrument. There can be no valid verbal contract for real property. I speculate the the attorney handling your family trust voluntarily recorded the instrument to eliminate and question as to its validity. Recording a trust negates one of the advantages of a trust in that the property in a trust transfers outside of probate and remains private ie does not become public record.

    For what it's worth, generally there is no difference in an NFA trust than a trust drafted to hold your mint 67 Ford Mustang for your son until he turns 35 if you die before that happens. If I thought there might be a fight between the kids as to who gets the Mustang and I thought for a moment that someone might burn the trust, it might be wise to record it, but it's generally not required.
    Last edited by TitleIIToyLover; 05-25-2015 at 09:57 PM.
    There are only 3 colors, 10 digits, and 7 notes; it's how we arrange them that is important.

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