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Atty who did my NFA trust has been suspended. Is my trust still valid?

12K views 41 replies 17 participants last post by  BeerHunter 
#1 · (Edited)
Russell asked a question just now about who to use and I seconded Rich and Florida Carry because his deal is much better than the $250 I paid for mine. I would have used Rich but he came out with the offer a few weeks after I got mine. But after Russell asked I tried to remember who did mine. After a few pages on google I saw his name and remembered who it was.

But then I found this article of how he misused clients trust funds to pay other debts?
Also seems his website is down for the count?

http://www.news-press.com/story/new...-attorney-patrick-buckley-suspended/23910261/

So does that nullify my trust or is it that still a valid legal document unrelated to his current troubles?
 
#2 ·
Interesting. I have Patrick in my cell phone as an emergency contact. Guess I will think twice about using him as a firearms attorney. Of course one is innocent until proven guilty and I will give him the benefit of the doubt.
 
#4 · (Edited)
You are good. That's what my atty friend told me. I text him. But he had been drinking today tho.
 
#5 ·
Blanca,

You are good to go. The attorney's current troubles have nothing to do with the validity of your documentation. Assuming your documentation went through correctly to begin with(payment/fees, etc.).
 
#8 ·
To over simplify it, the Trust is just a bunch of words on paper that you and anyone else who signed it agree to adhere to. Shouldn't matter who wrote it. We pay lawyers to write these things because... well, have you read yours.
Yeah it's properly executed and notarized. Paid for and all. Got it I guess almost two years ago or so.
Just wanted to make sure that since he/his office is the one who prepared it that his current troubles don't nullify it is all.
 
#7 ·
Buckley used to be around here a lot. I have his # in my billfold. May have to rethink that
 
#9 ·
Wow
 
#10 ·
maybe explains why we haven't seen him around in a while....
 
#12 ·
Quite strange how his website is shut down.
Not really familiar with attys and their practices but in reading the article it doesn't really seem like he did something that bad.
Just borrowed a little bit from one trust to pay another. Obviously not right. But not like he killed anyone.
But the Florida Bar assn didn't take kindly to it I guess.
 
#13 ·
Trust funds are a fiduciary responsibiity on the part of the Trust holder to the one putting the funds in trust. Even allowing co-mingling of the Trust Funds with the operating funds of the company is a serious offense - let alone actually using any of the Trust Funds for purposes not included in the Trust documents.
 
#15 ·
He also didn't reply...
 
#17 ·
Misappropriation of trust funds is one of the leading reasons for disbarement in FL.
As mentioned previously, so long as he was disbarred for that reason alone, there should be little concern as to the legitimacy of his work. I would take this opportunity to review your trust though. A lot of times attorneys use boilerplate trusts and fill in the blanks which may lead to an oversight here or there.
 
#21 ·
I was not WTHing you. I was WTHing others that seem to have it in their heads that a Trust is filed with the State or County. It is not !
Your post #18 refenced Colledgeboys inference that they are Filed. Hence my responce that some one please let us know if they have ever tried to get a Copy from a State or County Agency. It was formed as a question to get others to think about the process..!

The ATF may or may not keep a copy. It may be that an Agent just checks off that the Trust was correct and moves the process along. I do not know or care what their internal process is. Not one time in any previous post did I use the Words: Federal Govt, Feds, or ATF.

I believe we are in agreement.
 
#27 · (Edited)
My mistake -

I was not aware that NFA Trusts are not recorded at the County Clerk's Office in Florida (until I read 'TitleIIToyLover's post - Post #23). Giving it more thought, it makes sense that Trusts intended for, and created in response to, ATF regulations would have entirely different procedures. My only experience with trusts in Florida is with regard to a Family Trust - which did have to be recorded at the County Clerk's Office before it was valid.

Hope my confusion on the difference in treatment of NFA Trusts and other Trusts didn't cause you too much consternation.

For the OP - my only point re: 'the check clearing' was to point out that I don't think the agency receiving the payment (whether that was the County Clerk's Office or the ATF) would be concerned, or even know, what account or funds it was written against. As long as the check from your attorney could be cashed, and the funds were there to cover it, they would complete their processing. Now we all know who you would need to check with to see if your trust is in effect and valid - if that is still a concern for you.
 
#22 ·
I'm pretty sure Martinsburg kept a copy each time I applied for a stamp.
All ATF did was kindly remove and cash my check then forward packet to them for processing.
I may be wrong. But I don't care. As many calls to fdle dealers have made on me if they are keeping a file on me it has got to be 100 terabytes in size. :grin
 
#23 · (Edited)
Trust Law varies by State. In the State of Florida a trust is not recorded, it is simply executed using the same rules as a will. Martinsburg sends a copy of your trust to the legal team at ATF to verify that it is a valid trust in the eyes of ATF. It is my understanding that a digital copy of the trust is stored as part of the registry.

In as much as a trust can be amended and there is no requirement to notify Martinsburg of any changes, you current trust may not match the trust associated with the registry. In fact you can "re-state" at trust. In other words you can use the same trust name and substitute completely new trust language.

Once your trust owns NFA items, it must remain valid in accordance with the laws as they apply to the trust in accordance with the State in which it was executed. In fact, that is one of the most common reasons that a trust is not valid. The trust must enumerate the State the trust was executed in so that we know what State laws apply - IE:

This Trust Agreement shall be construed, regulated and governed by and in accordance with the laws of the State of Florida.

That is not meant to be argumentative, just my two cents for what it is worth.

It is also not legal advice.

Just Sayin!
 
#24 ·
Working the "float", also known as "kitting". Hope it isn't found true. Kind of like what Bernie Madoff did on a grand scale. :dunno
 
#28 ·
My concern was kinda along the lines of when one dna test is found to have been tainted than all others that went thru same office/person are the thrown out and folks are set free sometimes as a result.

So I was just wondering if he is found to be culpable in this instance does it make invalid any or all of his previous actions?
That's the thought I had.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Each and every document he drafted would stand on it's own. Just because he is accused of playing fast and loose with some money does not mean that he was not capable of drafting a simple trust. If the trust contained the elements required by statute, was executed property and funded, then it is a valid trust. If you have any concerns then you may want to have it reviewed by another attorney. If the primary purpose of the trust was to own NFA items, I would not worry about it. If the trust was drafted primarily as an estate planning document and you expect it to transfer you guns to you heirs then it is always wise to review you estate planning document periodically. This might be a good time to find an estate planning attorney and review all of your plans.

My point is that a RLT drafted to hold NFA items is a VERY simple instrument. The same RLT drafted to provide for minor children and establish subsequent trusts for their education and hold real estate can be 30 pages in length and very complex. Florida even has a pet trust to take care of your cats once you die. A RLT is a RLT but it's purpose will dictate the complexity.

Just Sayin!
 
#31 ·
#32 ·
She was his asst I believe as her name was in every email I got from the office.
When I had questions she was the one who responded and sent answers.
Also the one who answered the phone.

Bummer deal I guess. But apparently he did a bad thing and is now paying for it.
 
#36 ·
I'm not an attorney, but I hate to see a lovely lady on her own........:grin
 
#38 ·
I started subscribing to U.S. Law Shield back in October, from where I'm supposed to have immediate response from a competent attorney. However, for work on [amending] a Trust, :dunno
 
#42 ·
I'm sort of in the same boat. Started a Trust with The FC membership/Trust combo deal they used to advertise a few years ago when I was still stuck in the DPRofMD but never really used it for much. Now, me thinks a Trust is an even more attractive idea than ever, even if there are no NFA items in the Trust, for now! :grin
 
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