Shooting at another Navy Base, this time Pensacola Naval Air Station. - Page 5
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Thread: Shooting at another Navy Base, this time Pensacola Naval Air Station.

  1. #41
    Distinguished Member racer88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OHEng View Post
    I don't care how much it cost, I don't give a flying rat's patoot about training pipeline times or anything else, but EVERYone that wears a uniform ought to have training in defending their base. Just like on a ship, it should be a matter of daily routine to practice those skills. The local SO can show up if they want, but they'd be climbing over several dozen Sailors and Marines who likely already would have had the Saudi 2nd LT in question well into the Swiss cheese category. But that's just me... and it's not like any of the powers that be would listen to what I have to say.
    Yep. Even though, I was a dental officer, I had to get Damage Control and Shipboard Firefighting training. If there is a fire, for example, on the ship... the firefighters are whoever is THERE. If the ship takes a hit and is taking on water in YOUR space... Tag! YOU'RE IT!

    I agree, the same should OBVIOUSLY be true regarding a threat to the base or the ship.

    Quote Originally Posted by OHEng View Post
    Back to the subject of the gun for a second. The Daily Mail is reporting tonight that the weapon was a Glock 45, and it was purchased at a LGS. According to their article, there is some sort of exception to the rule IF the visiting national has a hunting license, and apparently this guy had one. I admit I don't know what laws regarding what might allow a visiting Saudi flight student to be able to purchase a firearm, but I'm sure it's gonna be common knowledge around LGSs and local ranges right quick!
    If that's true, that's some MORE BS, right there. Good lord.
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  2. #42
    Distinguished Member Ronnie948's Avatar
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    exception to the rule IF the visiting national has a hunting license,
    Already called a LOOPHOLE by the Lib A Turds

    This seems to be one of the EVIL MONSTERS that have the voices tell them to KILL.
    I'm betting this guy would have shot another one of his countrymen if they were in the room.
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  3. #43
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    So, the 9/11 attackers were all Saudi, Bush's started a BS wars with Iraq and Afghanistan and we still have Saudis learning to fly on our bases. WTF? I believe our politicians have sold us out over money kickbacks over Saudi oil. Its f#$king time to cut ties with these Saudi Arabia.

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  5. #44
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    This foreign training stuff has been going on for a long time. Back before the Shah of Iran fell from power, the Navy used to train Iranian Navy personnel in many of their various schools here in the U.S. I went to Electronics school and we had two Iranians in my class. TOTALLY different set of rules apply to them that don't apply to us. For example, before the Iranians arrived in our class, we got a brief on the differences in our cultures and how things that were wrong in our culture were perfectly fine in theirs, and we had to respect that. When given a test, their goal is to get the right answer by ANY means they are capable of; this meant it was fine for them to gawk over at our paper and snag a free answer where if one of us Americans tried that we'd be tossed out of the school.

    The Iranian students for the most part were from well-to-do and connected families back home. The worse fate they could suffer was to come over here and screw up because it meant getting sent home in disgrace, which also meant jail time and beatings when they hit Iranian soil again. Almost every one of them bought a new Camaro or Vette or Firebird (cash) and spent all their free time chasing skirt in Chicago. Seat candy for their new cars was tremendously important as a peer status thing. They learned just enough electronics to get by. They knew that when they got home they'd have ten or twelve worker bees under them to do all the work, so they had little incentive to actually learn the job.

    Different strokes, different folks, I guess. I simply found them irritating and smug to a degree that would have to be expressed in scientific notation.

    With these Saudis I believe part of it has to do with the country buying American-made weapons systems and airplanes, so it makes sense they would want training from the source. I don't think this tragic event is going to get in the way of that, in fact it would not surprise me if Saudi pulled several students out, brought them home, and offered them up like sacrificial lambs as a way to show appeasement. That and spreading lots of cash around to the victim families and more for base security efforts.

    Locally, the people involved with this event and its investigation are hinting that a lot more was amiss than meets the eye, but won't say what those things are. Our local FBI lead agent is normally very congenial with the press and doesn't mind going on camera with the Sheriff and politicians however he's been nowhere around the pressers. I'm not sure what, if anything, that indicates... maybe he's just very busy, I dunno.
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  6. #45
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    Okay, here is some information I found relating to the question of whether it was legal for the deceased Saudi 2nd LT to have purchased a firearm. This comes from 18 USC 922(y) (I've quoted that whole section below) and pertains to foreign nationals here on a NON-IMMIGRANT visa, which I'm assuming the Saudi trainees fall under. If I read this correctly, he can purchase a firearm so long as he's been here 180 days under the exception cited below.

    It seems he would fall under para (y)(2)(B).

    Now I have a new question - We've had people on this forum from states outside FL caught in some kind of hiccup where some minor offense in their youth is now clogging the works, preventing them from getting successfully through the NICS checks to purchase a firearm. So how in the hell is some Saudi foreign national passing that same check? Do we have access to Saudi police/court records or is it some kind of State Dept. "thing" that allows the successful passing (or waiving) of the checks?

    18 USC 922 (paragraph (y)):

    (y) Provisions Relating to Aliens Admitted Under Nonimmigrant Visas.—

    (1) Definitions.—In this subsection—
    (A) the term “alien” has the same meaning as in section 101(a)(3) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(3)); and
    (B) the term “nonimmigrant visa” has the same meaning as in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)).

    (2) Exceptions.—Subsections (d)(5)(B), (g)(5)(B), and (s)(3)(B)(v)(II) [NOTE: these three exceptions all state it is illegal to sell/transfer to any alien here illegally or here on a NON-immigrant visa.] do not apply to any alien who has been lawfully admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa, if that alien is—
    (A) admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States;
    (B) an official representative of a foreign government who is—
    (i) accredited to the United States Government or the Government’s mission to an international organization having its headquarters in the United States; or
    (ii) en route to or from another country to which that alien is accredited;
    (C) an official of a foreign government or a distinguished foreign visitor who has been so designated by the Department of State; or
    (D) a foreign law enforcement officer of a friendly foreign government entering the United States on official law enforcement business.

    (3) Waiver.—
    (A) Conditions for waiver.—Any individual who has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa may receive a waiver from the requirements of subsection (g)(5), if—
    (i) the individual submits to the Attorney General a petition that meets the requirements of subparagraph (C); and
    (ii) the Attorney General approves the petition.
    (B) Petition.—Each petition under subparagraph (B) shall—
    (i) demonstrate that the petitioner has resided in the United States for a continuous period of not less than 180 days before the date on which the petition is submitted under this paragraph; and
    (ii) include a written statement from the embassy or consulate of the petitioner, authorizing the petitioner to acquire a firearm or ammunition and certifying that the alien would not, absent the application of subsection (g)(5)(B), otherwise be prohibited from such acquisition under subsection (g).
    (C) Approval of petition.—The Attorney General shall approve a petition submitted in accordance with this paragraph, if the Attorney General determines that waiving the requirements of subsection (g)(5)(B) with respect to the petitioner—
    (i) would be in the interests of justice; and
    (ii) would not jeopardize the public safety.
    Last edited by OHEng; 12-08-2019 at 01:32 PM.
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  7. #46
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    We should have stop all dealings with countries that have terrorists. Why do we still deal with the Saudis when we know that a lot of this stuff comes from there?

  8. #47
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    They only have one thing we don't - gazillions in cash with unmatched influence in the financial world. If, for example, we want to dry up terrorist funding by asking the European financial markets/banking systems to change policies, they might do it if we ask, but they damn sure will move heaven and earth to do it if the US and Saudi Arabia wants it done. Training a couple hundred pilots to go along with the sale of airplanes and weapons systems is a cheap price to pay for the influence it buys. That would be my guess.
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  9. #48
    Distinguished Member Rick McC.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer88 View Post
    Yep. Even though, I was a dental officer, I had to get Damage Control and Shipboard Firefighting training. If there is a fire, for example, on the ship... the firefighters are whoever is THERE. If the ship takes a hit and is taking on water in YOUR space... Tag! YOU'RE IT!

    I agree, the same should OBVIOUSLY be true regarding a threat to the base or the ship.



    If that's true, that's some MORE BS, right there. Good lord.
    Yep!

    Now I have shot a nice buck with a .45acp 1911; but a glock? No way!

    A foreign national qualifying to buy a .45 glock because he’s got a hunting license?
    Last edited by Rick McC.; 12-08-2019 at 09:06 PM.
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  10. #49
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    As I mentioned I was completely clueless that such a thing was even possible. I thought for sure that some LGS had done something way out of line but I was wrong - I guess under this exception what they did was perfectly in line with the law. But I still want to know about the NICS thing. I just don't see how they can determine the background of a person in that category (foreign national, here on a non-immigrant visa, meets one of the exception criteria to purchase legally) without having access to foreign records. I can't see the logic of simply checking local agencies for the time they were here, I mean they would never do that for a U.S. citizen who moved to FL from another state 180 days ago, so how do Saudis pass those checks?
    A man with two watches never really knows what time it is.
    M. Twain


    I think the feminists probably need some serious man in their lives.
    Delores O'Riodan

  11. #50
    Distinguished Member Ronnie948's Avatar
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    SOOOOOO,
    On the news this morning the outcome was that it "WAS" a TERRORIST event so I guess I was right the first time.
    Ronnie

    PS: See # 8
    Last edited by Ronnie948; 12-09-2019 at 06:43 AM.
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