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Thread: America, a gun behind every tree?

  1. #11
    Senior Member hornet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownie View Post
    A large number of "un-soldiers" could easily overwhelm a small number of professional soldiers


    7th Air Cav had 500 men, the NVA had 2500 soldiers Ia Drang in Nov, 1965. 150 or so of 7th Cav were killed while over 800 nva were killed. The nva troops were hardened soldiers, they lost nearly 6 to every 1 of ours. History abounds with battles where a small fighting forces beat back large numbers of enemy combatants.
    there was a pretty good movie about Lieutenant Colonel Harold G. Moore and his unit. We Were Soldiers - The Battle of Ia Drang, 1965

  2. #12
    Distinguished Member racer88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownie View Post
    A large number of "un-soldiers" could easily overwhelm a small number of professional soldiers

    Depends on what that small number of professional soldiers we're talking about. Regular army enlisted are professional soldiers, but 6 regular army professional soldiers aren't capable of what 6 Seal team members or 6 force recon Marines are capable of accomplishing.

    7th Air Cav had 500 men, the NVA had 2500 soldiers Ia Drang in Nov, 1965. 150 or so of 7th Cav were killed while over 800 nva were killed. The nva troops were hardened soldiers, they lost nearly 6 to every 1 of ours. History abounds with battles where a small fighting forces beat back large numbers of enemy combatants.

    One thing that should be mentioned is that hunters aren't being shot back at. A hunter is only a hunter goes just so far, most hunters I've been around wouldn't have the stomach for a protracted fight liker Ia Drang
    I expected that and don't disagree, necessarily.

    But, if it was 50,000 armed U.S. citizens vs 1,000 NKs or Chinese.... I'm gonna give the edge to the pissed off rednecks. I think the "hunters" wouldn't take kindly to a foreign invading force. While under "normal" circumstances, hunters might turn tail and run when rounds come their way... I submit that they will NOT accept submission to a bunch of Chinese or NKs or Russians and will find the needed courage to face them down. Because if they don't... they're going to die anyway. Better to die in a pile of brass than on your knees while watching them rape your wife and daughter, eh?

    Of course, this is all fantasy. They aren't going to send infantry. As I mentioned earlier, the logistics required to transport a substantial number of potential enemy troops to our actual shores is beyond the capabilities of most, if not all countries out there. If they were to attack us, I suspect it will be via ICBM or other air attacks, including electronic countermeasures to disrupt our communications, power, and financial infrastructure.
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  3. #13
    Distinguished Member brownie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer88 View Post
    I expected that and don't disagree, necessarily.

    But, if it was 50,000 armed U.S. citizens vs 1,000 NKs or Chinese.... I'm gonna give the edge to the pissed off rednecks. I think the "hunters" wouldn't take kindly to a foreign invading force. While under "normal" circumstances, hunters might turn tail and run when rounds come their way... I submit that they will NOT accept submission to a bunch of Chinese or NKs or Russians and will find the needed courage to face them down. Because if they don't... they're going to die anyway. Better to die in a pile of brass than on your knees while watching them rape your wife and daughter, eh?

    Of course, this is all fantasy. They aren't going to send infantry. As I mentioned earlier, the logistics required to transport a substantial number of potential enemy troops to our actual shores is beyond the capabilities of most, if not all countries out there. If they were to attack us, I suspect it will be via ICBM or other air attacks, including electronic countermeasures to disrupt our communications, power, and financial infrastructure.
    We know with fair certainty that gun owning/carrying citizens by and large have NO formal arms training. It's deemed about 1% of gun carriers ever take any training past that required to get their ltc. So, take your 50K x 1% that have training, you're down to 500 that may have more training than the average gun carrier in the US.

    Now take and put that 500 barely trained against 1000 hardened military soldiers from NK or china, wanna guess who actually takes a battlefield?

    I'm not holding out hope American hunters are ever going to be the difference between an invading formally trained fighting force. Especially when those hunters are not organized into cohesive units that operate with disciplined unit tactics, don't have comms to communicate and develop tactics or gather intel that would be necessary to defeat a well trained force.
    Last edited by brownie; 11-15-2019 at 06:14 PM.
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  5. #14
    Distinguished Member racer88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownie View Post
    We know with fair certainty that gun owning/carrying citizens by and large have NO formal arms training. It's deemed about 1% of gun carriers ever take any training past that required to get their ltc. So, take your 50K x 1% that have training, you're down to 500 that may have more training than the average gun carrier in the US.

    Now take and put that 500 barely trained against 1000 hardened military soldiers from NK or china, wanna guess who actually takes a battlefield?

    I'm not holding out hope American hunters are ever going to be the difference between an invading formally trained fighting force. Especially when those hunters are not organized into cohesive units that operate with disciplined unit tactics, don't have comms to communicate and develop tactics or gather intel that would be necessary to defeat a well trained force.
    One word: Colonists

    They weren't highly-trained soldiers, either.

    Again... we are debating a fantasy that could / would never happen. It would be guerilla warfare, just like the colonists vs the red coats... not formalized / academic field tactics. Rednecks sniping the invaders from concealment.
    Last edited by racer88; 11-15-2019 at 06:27 PM.
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  6. #15
    Distinguished Member joecarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer88 View Post
    One word: Colonists

    They weren't highly-trained soldiers, either.

    Again... we are debating a fantasy that could / would never happen. It would be guerilla warfare, just like the colonists vs the red coats... not formalized / academic field tactics. Rednecks sniping the invaders from concealment.
    Coundn't the same be said about the Afgans against the Russians?

    Agree it's a total fantasy but I'm sure John Conner would pull us all together.
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  7. #16
    Distinguished Member brownie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer88 View Post
    One word: Colonists

    They weren't highly-trained soldiers, either.

    Again... we are debating a fantasy that could / would never happen. It would be guerilla warfare, just like the colonists vs the red coats... not formalized / academic field tactics. Rednecks sniping the invaders from concealment.
    They weren't highly trained, but the next invading force isn't going to be the brits standing in line formations to be sniped as in colonial days
    The mind is the limiting factor

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  8. #17
    Member Old Farmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer88 View Post
    One word: Colonists

    They weren't highly-trained soldiers, either.

    Again... we are debating a fantasy that could / would never happen. It would be guerilla warfare, just like the colonists vs the red coats... not formalized / academic field tactics. Rednecks sniping the invaders from concealment.
    Yes,
    The colonists turned into Minute Men real quick, as the invading British found out the hard way..

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