Florida Concealed Carry banner

Shoot Straight/Florida Gun Shows not our pals

9K views 50 replies 17 participants last post by  BeerHunter 
#1 ·
The promoter, Florida Gun Shows (Shoot Straight), has decided to ban private gun sales at all their shows. Calls were made to vendors (8/16/19) telling them that only licensed gun dealers will be able to buy guns from patrons and sell guns at their shows. That means background check, waiting period if you don't have a carry permit, paperwork and inflated costs. It also means selling to licensed dealers who are looking for a markup so the price you get will be reduced.

The reason for this is simple: the margin on new gun sales is low, maybe less than 10%. On used guns it is 50% or more. Khalid, the owner, hopes to drive the small sellers away so that he can take up the slack.

This is certainly his right but it is an unacceptable assault on our ability to buy and sell and, thus, shows his disdain for the Second Amendment and for Florida gun owners (who have made him a wealthy man, BTW). Also, when you go to these shows it will be like going to a gun store rather than a true marketplace.

We should avoid all shows put on by Florida Gun Shows and boycott their brick and mortar stores which do business as Shoot Straight. Patronize Patriot Productions, 2 Guys Shows and the other promoters in Florida that show a bit of concern for the gun owning and buying public.

I think that we are under assault from many quarters, having a person like Khalid, who depends upon us for his livelihood, to not have our backs is despicable.
 
See less See more
#2 ·
when you go to these shows it will be like going to a gun store
Every gun show that I've ever been to is pretty much like going to a gun store. Private sellers are extremely rare in my experience.

That said... private sales can still happen in the parking lot, eh? :)
 
#4 ·
I suspect there's a little more to Shoot Straight's policy change for their shows affecting private firearms sales than indicated here.
:popcorn
 
#6 ·
We were a dealer at their shows for 4 or 5 years. No real problems. Thing that bugs me is that we have enough static from the left without a guy who has made a fortune from us acting as though he were Mike Bloomberg.

Very annoying. Fortunately there are alternatives.
 
#10 ·
Completely understandable and you're not the first to highlight annoying issues with how Shoot Straight run its shows. Its been a few years since the last thread on the subject, though.
 
#7 ·
I've had good experience with SS. I've bought several guns from them.
 
#8 ·
I've been of the opinion that Khalid was a douchebag from the first time I saw him riding his Segway at a gun show. :rolleyes:

He is no true friend of the 2A; everything he does is calculated to line his pocket...as is his right. I've purchased several guns, both new and used, from his tables. But I'll only do business with him if it is advantageous to me to do so.

The internet has largely rendered gun shows unnecessary anyway; all the hard-to-find items that shoppers used to go searching for at gun shows can now be found online.
 
#9 ·
I see gun shows as primarily a place for newbies to buy guns. There's nothing "new" there, and the prices are usually HIGH. But, newbies don't know any better. I used to be one! Ammo is ALWAYS over-priced there in my experience.

If you know what you're looking for, and you know what the price SHOULD be, you MIGHT find a deal at a show. But, mostly... it's just an extension of retail brick-'n-mortar stores showing their wares under the guise of "better gun show deals" (again targeting newbies). I'd rather just go to their store front on a regular day... not pay to get in.... and not deal with the crowds.
 
#17 ·
Of course he is eliminating competition somewhat, there are other dealers there after all. What he is doing is enhancing the margin of an average sale. But the consequence of his actions is registration. And that cannot be a surprise to him and that is bad, IMO of course.

Frankly, I am a bit surprised at the general lack of outrage about this move of his.
 
#18 ·
The consequences of HIS actions are REGISTRATION??? LOL! BIG leap. More than a big leap... flatly and logically incoherent.

I guess I didn't realize the owner of SS had such powers. He can enact gun registration? Did someone one crown him King?? Last I checked, my vote is as good as his.

But, yeah... I'm not surprised that used guns have a higher profit margin than new guns. The same is true of cars, and just about every other durable good.
 
#20 ·
While I agree his actions make him a feminine hygiene product one might use on a summer's eve, as well as the bag it came in, does not force a registration issue..

Florida has no firearms registration. A 4473 background check is not a registration form. The FFL is required to hold it for 20 years. If the FFL goes out of business, they send their 4473s to the ATF, where they sit in a storage facility.

FDLE is not allowed to keep detailed lists or records of background checks after a certain period of time. As I recall, it is somewhere between 30 - 90 days. (If other have better information, feel free to correct me if I am wrong.) Otherwise, at least in FL, the only record they keep is the FFL and the control number that is recorded on the 4473.

Tracing a gun through 4473s takes a fair amount of time under normal circumstances. It takes even longer if all the records are sitting in the ATF warehouse.

Finally, realize that there here are very few ways to purchase anything completely anonymously anymore. Order a 80% receiver online, or anything else for that matter, there is a trail. Use a credit card online or in a store, there is a trail. Use a gift card, there is a trail.

Your only real options are cash only/local/private party purchases.

Even in a private party sale, many gun owners will have a bill of sale with the buyer's name, even if only in the unlikely event the ATF comes knocking on their door asking about it.
 
#21 ·
Cash is king.
And the powers that be are making it very convenient even financially beneficial with rewards like % cash back, to have every penny you spend tracked.

One world currency is a sign of the end times. But don't pay any attention to that man behind the curtain.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Khaled/Florida Gun Shows.

To the OP. Khaled does not set the rules on private sales at his shows. When he signs multi year contracts for a large venue, there are rules which the owners of each venue insist must be followed. In today's world of bad news at 6 PM, they have all stipulated that ALL gun sales in the building must go through a FFL who will conduct the required background check. Not Khaled's rules, but the venue owner's rules. While some smaller venues in rural areas may not have these rules, the venues in the larger cities insist upon it. I have known Khaled for over 30 years, & yes, sometimes at a show he may come off as abrupt, but he's always got 10 things going on at the same time in his head. At any given show, he is not only responsible for his 100 tables loaded with firearms, but the entire show itself, & all the attending FFL's. When there were gun protests in our capitol, Khaled paid for buses to get anyone who wanted to attend there. Recently, a guy had to discharge his weapon to save a life. It was a good shoot, & the guy was not arrested, but his gun disappeared in the evidence room for a few years. He wasn't a rich man, but Khaled heard about the guy losing his gun, & gave the guy a similar gun for free. So before I would go onto a public forum, & spread false statements, & untruths, I would try to make sure the facts were correct. GARY
 
#24 ·
To the OP. Khaled does not set the rules on private sales at his shows. When he signs multi year contracts for a large venue, there are rules which the owners of each venue insist must be followed. In today's world of bad news at 6 PM, they have all stipulated that ALL gun sales in the building must go through a FFL who will conduct the required background check. Not Khaled's rules, but the venue owner's rules. While some smaller venues in rural areas may not have these rules, the venues in the larger cities insist upon it. I have known Khaled for over 30 years, & yes, sometimes at a show he may come off as abrupt, but he's always got 10 things going on at the same time in his head. At any given show, he is not only responsible for his 100 tables loaded with firearms, but the entire show itself, & all the attending FFL's. When there were gun protests in our capitol, Khaled paid for buses to get anyone who wanted to attend there. Recently, a guy had to discharge his weapon to save a life. It was a good shoot, & the guy was not arrested, but his gun disappeared in the evidence room for a few years. He wasn't a rich man, but Khaled heard about the guy losing his gun, & gave the guy a similar gun for free. So before I would go onto a public forum, & spread false statements, & untruths, I would try to make sure the facts were correct. GARY
Welcome to FCC from Palm Beach County, N4KVE! :wave

Since this was your first Post to FCC, please take the time to post you're own Introduction thread to FCC so the members will get to know you. You can do that by going to the Introduce Yourself section of The Front Office and start your very own introduction thread. Then you'll find that lots of other FCC members will know to chime in to properly welcome you to the forum, and will be more responsive in answering questions!

In case you weren't aware, you can stay current on pertinent Florida Statutes regarding use of force and firearms law by going right to the source using these links for Chapter 776 - Justifiable Use of Force and Chapter 790 - Weapons and Firearms. I'd also like to suggest you obtain your own copy of FLORIDA FIREARMS Law, Use & Ownership by Jon Gutmacher!

Finally, I would like to recommend you consider joining Florida Carry and join the effort to protect the rights of Floridians to keep and bear arms!

Again, welcome to FCC! :grin
 
#26 ·
I remember when gun shows had actual gun owners who would rent a table to either sell off part of their collection or trade for something that interested them more. Now it's 20 or so gun stores selling the same plastic crap they have in their store for a higher price, with a side order of beef jerky. Scroom
 
#29 ·
The FFL / local gun store (etc..) doesn't have to be a party to the transaction. They just oversee the process (i.e., background checks).
They collect a small fee for their trouble, and in the end, hand each party a certificate from the government stating that the government authorizes the sale.
The two leave, and that's that.

I'm sure there will be all manner of objections, and implementation problems (i.e., mandatory waiting periods, etc..), but conceptually, I believe the approach could be made to work.

I'd put my flame suit on, but I wonder just how many folks here would agree with the above (conceptually), even though it'll never happen in reality.

Not no, but hell no. I refuse to have to get a "certificate" from the government stating I can buy or sell legally owned private property. The ONLY way these "universal background checks" can be implemented are with registration. And anyone who believes that is ok probably believes red flag laws are a good idea
 
#30 ·
I didn't say anything about registration. For that matter, I didn't even say the sale had to occur.
The private transaction Buyer and Seller each have proof the transaction was (or would be) legit.
That document provides safe-harbor for the Seller, and eliminates the so-called "gun show loophole".

If you sell real estate, or a car, or an insurance policy, or any number of other things, the government handles that transaction in much the same was as I've outlined.
The salient difference, of course, being the 2A is a constitutionally guaranteed right, whereas selling property is just.... well, selling property.

Doesn't matter anyway -- it will never happen. (I think we agree on that!)
 
#34 ·
What is your definition of a “small private dealer”. Someone who does not have a FFL, but sells guns at shows every month? That’s illegal according to the ATF. OTOH, FFL’s are free to sell guns at FGS shows for whatever price they want. Even cheaper than Shoot Straight if they want to give them away. Bill’s WPB show at the fairgrounds has big signs posted at the door saying no private sales. Remember, a buyer, & seller can always leave the show to consummate a deal if they want to. GARY
 
#35 ·
Remember, a buyer, & seller can always leave the show to consummate a deal if they want to. GARY
Exactly. I’ve got a piece I bought off a private seller several years ago. I overheard him trying to sell it to a dealer. He was having trouble getting a fair price from any the dealers. I pulled him aside and offered him something much closer to his price. We walked outside, past the “no private sales” signs and went across the street to a Denny’s parking lot to make the exchange.

I got serious stink-eye from the Shoot Straight guy, but scroom! As I’ve said many times, I don’t go to gun shows to buy, I go to shop and go hands-on. Should I fall in love with something, I’ll go elsewhere and avoid paying their gun show marked up price. :thumsup
 
#36 ·
Ummmm Could you cite that the specific ATF rule that prohibits private sales? Fact is that private sales have been a mainstay of Florida gun shows for ages. And it certainly is a gray area that Khaled profited from over the years. I know of one case where the dealer was clearly "in business" and closed down but generally the numbers of guns sold are minuscule. Anyway, if the feds have a problem I am sure that they are capable of doing something about it. Let me ask ... are we back to Khaled "obeying the law" as opposed to "adhering to the rules of the venue"?

Actually, Khaled has some minion at the Ft. Meyers show tooling around in a cart in the parking lot short circuiting private sales. I know, I was accosted. Also you might check with Spray and Pray regarding how well Khaled deals with being undercut.

All of which is irrelevant. The guy is doing what many of us severely object to when it comes from a politician. If there is justice in the world, his revenues will be down.

BTW I remember him importuning dealers over the PA to get tables at some new venue a year or two ago. I hope he reaches out again some time. What goes around comes around.

Thing is that the guy simply made a move to increase his revenues. That is the long and short of it. It does not need any justification whatsoever, it is his business. I simply find it distasteful. Owning decisions is a sign of integrity. If he said "Damn I am getting creamed on gun sales and I need to do something about it" the businessman in me woulda smiled. Blaming the law (which is what his representative did with me) is dodgy at best.

There is not much more to say about this topic. We know who we can trust. Or not.
 
#37 ·
lol...the guy in the cart may have ended up with it driven up his butt
 
#38 · (Edited)
While it’s totally legal for me to sell a gun I’ve had for a year, & got tired of it, it’s illegal for me to go to a gun store, buy 10 guns, & sell them at the next show. So while I can sell a gun I own as my hobby, I can not sell 10 newly acquired guns to pay my mortgage, or put food on the table. The term “private dealer” is a conundrum. Either you are a dealer with a FFL, or you’re just a guy selling guns under the table. FGS States any private sales must go through a dealer at the show. He does not insist Shoot Straight must do the transfer. Rather any FFL at the show can make the transfer. So this way, any FFL at the show can pick up a few extra bucks. GARY.
 
#41 · (Edited)
He is the biggest dealer so he will disproportionately benefit. I am sure he has done the math. But so what? The individual suffers thru lower offered prices if selling and higher prices if buying. That work for you or anyone here?

So you are saying that Khaled has taken it upon himself to enforce his interpretation of federal law? And this benefits the gun owning constituency how exactly?

OK. That helps. Now we know what we are dealing with.

And BTW ... I have a couple of hundred guns. If I want to sell them that is legal. Do we really need Quislings like Khaled second guessing us as to legality? And, yeah, he is a Quisling. There is no question that ATF wants ALL sales to go thru dealers so there is a record of every sale. I attended a dealer's meeting at one of the shows with the regional director of atf and she said exactly that. You think that that is a good thing? Andf can think of 10 or so Democratic presidential candidates that would agree.

Now... it is entirely possible that ATF strong armed Khaled. That they said "hey there, we have evidence that there are illegal firearms transactions at your shows and we want that to stop. You can either help us by banning private sales or we can investigate further with all that that implies."

Possible. Frankly, he would have no choice under those circumstances.
 
#39 · (Edited)
I work for 4, or 5 FFL’s at various shows in South Florida. When there is a FGS show, [Khaled] & a Sports Show Specialists show, [Bill] on the same weekend, why do the major FFL’s do Khaled’s show instead of Bill’s show? Simple. They WILL SELL 30-40% more guns at Khaled’s show vs Bill’s show. Those major FFL’s will do Bill’s show if there is no conflicting FGS show on the same weekend because selling a few guns is better than selling no guns. One FFL I work for is lucky to sell 35-40 guns on a weekend at Bill’s show in WPB, however that same FFL will sell 60 guns at Khaled’s show in Miami. So if you were a FFL, which show would you work if both shows were the same weekend? The show where you may sell 35-40 guns, or the show where you will sell 60 guns? GARY.
 
#40 ·
Thats fine but irrelevant.

The guy puts hurdles up for gun selling. Period. Nothing to do with the law or venue rules. He is not a friend of gun owners. I am only suggesting that people spend their money with folks who are on their side is all. There are plenty of smaller shows and smaller dealers throughout florida that are more deserving of our cash.

You want to support Khaled and his stores? Great, go wild. I don't think that anyone who negatively impacts firearms ownership, dealers, politicians or anyone else, deserves our cash. If they negatively impact us, they should not benefit.

As Kevin can attest, bending over is not always a good position.


Photo caption Flesh Media
 
#42 ·
I do not have an iron in this fire, but mad props for using the term "Quisling"

You sir, have won the Internet for the day.
 
#43 ·
Thank you.

It is a tough word to work into conversation but if he is voluntarily doing ATF's work for them, it is apt.

OTOH if he was pressured, which is seeming more likely to me, then his actions are understandable.

I will poke around among the other promoters to see if there is more general pressure.
 
#46 ·
Never said he didn't have the right to do as he pleases.

Just said that he is no friend to the gun owning fraternity and I don't think that he should be supported.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top