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Thread: Shoot or not?

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member deadeyedick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer88 View Post
    So, is that to say that the employer MUST have a written policy forbidding firearms?
    I don't know that it necessarily has to be in writing, but it has to have been communicated to the employee at some point. The easiest way to prove that that has been done is with a written policy that has been acknowledge, in writing, by the employee.

    Quote Originally Posted by racer88 View Post
    What if there is simply no policy, for or against?
    Then I suppose the employee would probably not be subject to disciplinary action by the employer. In terms of exposing the employer to liability, I suspect that having no set policy would hurt more than it would help.

    Quote Originally Posted by racer88 View Post
    How is the employer expected to KNOW if employees are armed? Is that a reasonable expectation?
    In most cases, there's probably no way to know...beyond the honor system. But if an employer has established a 'no guns' policy for employees, that may mitigate the liability the employer is exposed to if and when a rogue employee violates the policy. At the very least, the threat of termination is likely to ensure compliance by most employees.

    Quote Originally Posted by racer88 View Post
    I could see some liability if the employer had explicitly ENDORSED firearms carry by employees.

    Finally... has there EVER been such a case brought against a company... for the actions of an employee OUTSIDE of his duties? Just because it was on premises?
    I suppose there probably has been, but I can't cite any specific examples.
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  2. #32
    Distinguished Member racer88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadeyedick View Post



    I suppose there probably has been, but I can't cite any specific examples.
    I should have been more specific (edited my previous comment). Has there ever been a case where someone sued a company / establishment due to the use of a firearm by an employee? I'm not expecting you to do a search. It's more of a rhetorical question. I bet there are none to very very few. I wonder if anyone has HEARD of such a case? Has an innocent bystander been hurt in such a circumstance? Has an armed robber lodged a lawsuit for being shot by an employee?

    I think we often worry WAY too much about IMAGINED risks.
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  3. #33
    Distinguished Member brownie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer88 View Post
    I should have been more specific (edited my previous comment). Has there ever been a case where someone sued a company / establishment due to the use of a firearm by an employee? I'm not expecting you to do a search. It's more of a rhetorical question. I bet there are none to very very few. I wonder if anyone has HEARD of such a case? Has an innocent bystander been hurt in such a circumstance? Has an armed robber lodged a lawsuit for being shot by an employee?

    I think we often worry WAY too much about IMAGINED risks.
    Potential risks, forethought goes a long way.
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  5. #34
    Super Moderator Steve48's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadeyedick View Post
    Then I suppose the employee would probably not be subject to disciplinary action by the employer. In terms of exposing the employer to liability, I suspect that having no set policy would hurt more than it would help.
    My understanding is that an employer can fire an employee in Florida for any reason or no reason. Is that not correct? What is the law in Oregon?
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  6. #35
    Distinguished Member deadeyedick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve48 View Post
    My understanding is that an employer can fire an employee in Florida for any reason or no reason. Is that not correct? What is the law in Oregon?
    While that is true in theory, there is sufficient case law to make that notion somewhat erroneous. In any case, the employee would be eligible for unemployment benefits if he was terminated without cause, and the employer is not likely to prevail if they appeal the claim.

    No idea what the law is in Oregon.
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  7. #36
    Distinguished Member joecarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve48 View Post
    My understanding is that an employer can fire an employee in Florida for any reason or no reason. Is that not correct? What is the law in Oregon?
    Ya know I always heard that and certainly thought that as a rank and file employee, but the minute I got into management and wanted to fire an employee I found out it took an act of congress to get my HR department to actually terminate. Counseling, documentation, more counseling, coaching, more documentation and then about 5 or 6 "final warnings".......

    Wish I knew that all the years I punched a clock.

    ETA: I do believe it all has to do with them not wanting to pay the unemployement benefits for a wrongful termination. I have had to participate in an unemployement claim by a terminatied employee for cause, in this case, quit without notice. Didn't ever come back and expected to collect. Case dismissed, but employee still tried of course. When you work for a large employer that employs thousands you can bet they have those claims almost daily. So they want to make sure each termination is iron clad for a claim against them.
    Last edited by joecarry; 05-30-2019 at 07:41 PM.
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  8. #37
    Distinguished Member Rick McC.'s Avatar
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    The agency I worked at had published policies and procedures, including a no firearms policy, but, under Florida Law, firearms could be kept in vehicles in the parking lot.

    The public could carry on the premises, except during the monthly governing board meetings.

    There were times when I chose to carry; when working disaster relief after the ‘04 hurricanes in Polk and DeSoto counties, and in the office after a notably crazy well driller had made specific threats against some of the staff there.

    Sometimes policy must take a back seat to an individual’s decision based on specific conditions. I’d rather be alive and unemployed than dead, but have a job I won’t be able to report to anyway.
    Last edited by Rick McC.; 05-30-2019 at 08:38 PM.
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  9. #38
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    ^^^^
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