HR 218 qualifications
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Thread: HR 218 qualifications

  1. #1
    Junior Member SheepdogIHS's Avatar
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    HR 218 qualifications

    I've got a question for any retired LEO's out there.

    Thursday I did my annual HR 218 qualification. On the paper work I had to list the make, model, and serial number of the weapon that I qualified with.
    I had never before had to do this.

    When I had completed the course of fire, my qualification card said "Sig Sauer P226".

    I asked the deputy why he had noted the make and model and not just "automatic or revolver" as the law required,

    He explained that it was a new rule and that the only gun that I could carry under HR 218 was the exact gun that I had qualified with.

    I pulled up a copy of the law and sure enough it states that a qualified person "must qualify with the TYPE (auto or revolver) of firearm that they intend to carry".

    He said that if I were involved in a shooting in another state that the IRCSO could only attest that I was proficient with a Sig Sauer P226 ser#xxxxxx.

    I have been retired since 2011 and have been HR 218 certified every year since then. All of my previous certification cards only specify "auto".

    Has anyone else had this happen? Can a county or state override Federal Law?

    I look foreward to your comments.
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  2. #2
    Junior Member awoodpd13's Avatar
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    I did mine (Georgia) on Thursday, as well! Georgia has used the same form for years, and only lists "Type(s) of Firearm(s)" qualified with. The only 2 options are "Semi-Auto" and "Revolver" with NO make/model/serial number called for. I have not heard of any changes to the statute requiring the exact same firearm to be carried. Good luck!
    Last edited by awoodpd13; 05-18-2019 at 03:30 PM.

  3. #3
    Junior Member SheepdogIHS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by awoodpd13 View Post
    I did mine (Georgia) on Thursday, as well! Georgia has used the same form for years, and only lists "Type(s) of Firearm(s)" qualified with. The only 2 options are "Semi-Auto" and "Revolver" with NO make/model/serial number called for. I have not heard of any changes to the statute requiring the exact same firearm to be carried. Good luck!
    In the past 8 years that I qualified it was as you say. The only choices were Semi-Auto and Revolver. This is the first time I have seen this

    Seeing as how I am retired and love to shoot on Thursday I qualified with 2 different semi-autos. On Monday I will go back and qualify with 2 more. There is no cost other then ammo and they have to do the paper work and filing so it is a lot more work for them. I only hope that I can get them to include them all on one card.

    I hope that there is a legal challenge to this new procedure. According to them if you were to qualify with one gun and it broke a month later you would have to qualify with your new gun to be legal.
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  5. #4
    Junior Member SheepdogIHS's Avatar
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    This change negatively effects all current and retired LEO's. It directly contradicts Federal Law as written and should be challenged.

    Previously (and currently as stated in HR 218) you would be able to carry ANY handgun of the TYPE that you had qualified with concealed in all states and territories.

    Now some states will only allow you to carry the very handgun that you had qualified with.

    What this means is that if 3 months after you qualify your handgun breaks and you buy another one of the exact make, model, and caliber you would have to re-qualify with the new handgun to be covered by HR 218.

    I don't know how much it would cost to challenge this but I'm sure that it is much more then an individual could afford.

    I'm sure that this was originated by gun hating attorneys and if this is allowed to stand we have to wonder what they will come up with next in order to further neuter HR 218.
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  6. #5
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    ^^^^
    By HR218, are you referring to LEOSA? Have you contacted FloridaCarry.org? Are you a member?
    -BH

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  7. #6
    Junior Member SheepdogIHS's Avatar
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    This explains it.

    https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/leos...ked-questions/

    I will join FloridaCarry.org. Thanks
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  8. #7
    Junior Member SheepdogIHS's Avatar
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    I spoke extensively with an attorney at the NRA Law Enforcement Division. He assured me that individual states could indeed decide what qualification procedures they wanted to use.

    Even so this does NOT nullify LEOSA's standard that one must qualify (with states individual standards) with the "TYPE" of weapon that is to be carried and is not limited to that specific weapon.

    He assured me that if I qualified with a Sig Sauer, that would NOT limit me to a Sig Sauer. He assured me that I could carry a Glock, Ruger, S&W or any other handgun to include a revolver if I so chose.

    This is a copy of the reply I got from the NRA:

    Thank you for contacting the NRA-ILA. You are correct. Please see the first answer in our LEOSA FAQ section. You may also call 800-672-3888 and ask for our Law Enforcement Division.

    “This is a frequent concern given the statute's use of the term "type of firearm." LEOSA authorizes the carrying of a "concealed firearm" of the same "type" the individual receives certification for. As there is no case law interpreting this wording, the word "type" should be read to conform with the dictionary definition; something distinguishable as a variety. Accordingly, "type" of firearm should be read to mean either long gun or hand gun, which would permit you to carry any type of legal long gun or hand gun based on your qualification and not one particular make, model, or caliber.”

    Sincerely,

    David
    Grassroots Division
    www.NRAILA.org
    [email protected]
    From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
    Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 9:15 PM
    To: ILA-Contact <[email protected]>
    Subject: Contact NRA-ILA Form

    If you have questions or concerns please call the above number and ask for the Law Enforcement Division. Please visit the link below.


    https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/leos...ked-questions/
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    Many states have 'liberally' interpreted their authority to place more stringent limitations on LEOSA - although the bill specifically requires qualifications for "different types" of weapons (semi-auto/revolver), it does not specify caliber, make, model or serial number has to be indicated.
    That doesn't seem to matter - you may find one state placing a serial number on the LEOSA card while another will list the specific model or caliber - it doesn't take a genius to figure out which 'non-firearm friendly' states these are.

    In 2017 I had a range officer who tried to tell me that the only pistol I could legally carry under LEOSA was the one I'd qualified with - I know that was wrong, but didn't press the matter (since I also have a state-issued CCW permit) until I qualified the next year when I brought a copy of the law...by then that individual was no longer the range officer and the person in-charge had no issues with following the written requirements of HR 218.

    I see two solutions which would resolve this, but neither are on the immediate horizon:
    1) A costly and protracted court challenge in each state which applies further limitations to the law (because of the lax wording of the bill) OR
    2) Congress clarifying the wording of HR 218 to eliminate states varying the qualification 'rules'.

    Until then, I think we're stuck at the mercy of whichever state in which we qualify.

    Flwing
    NRA Member
    Retired LEO
    LEOSA & Florida CCW permit holder
    Last edited by flwing; 05-22-2019 at 08:58 PM.

  10. #9
    Junior Member SheepdogIHS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flwing View Post
    Many states have 'liberally' interpreted their authority to place more stringent limitations on LEOSA - although the bill specifically requires qualifications for "different types" of weapons (semi-auto/revolver), it does not specify caliber, make, model or serial number has to be indicated.
    That doesn't seem to matter - you may find one state placing a serial number on the LEOSA card while another will list the specific model or caliber - it doesn't take a genius to figure out which 'non-firearm friendly' states these are.

    In 2017 I had a range officer who tried to tell me that the only pistol I could legally carry under LEOSA was the one I'd qualified with - I know that was wrong, but didn't press the matter (since I also have a state-issued CCW permit) until I qualified the next year when I brought a copy of the law...by then that individual was no longer the range officer and the person in-charge had no issues with following the written requirements of HR 218.

    I see two solutions which would resolve this, but neither are on the immediate horizon:
    1) A costly and protracted court challenge in each state which applies further limitations to the law (because of the lax wording of the bill) OR
    2) Congress clarifying the wording of HR 218 to eliminate states varying the qualification 'rules'.

    Until then, I think we're stuck at the mercy of whichever state in which we qualify.

    Flwing
    NRA Member
    Retired LEO
    LEOSA & Florida CCW permit holder
    As I posted above. According to the legal authorities at the NRA, it doesn't matter what state authorities try to tell you, if you have qualified with any handgun per state standards you may carry any handgun that you choose.

    Also, according to revisions to LEOSA ammunition restrictions do not apply to someone carrying under LEOSA. eg. N.J.'s prohibition on hollow point ammo does not apply to anyone carrying under LEOSA.

    Revisions are being considered to exempt LEOSA carriers from magazine capacities.

    Please call the NRA's Law Enforcement Division for verification.
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  11. #10
    Junior Member SheepdogIHS's Avatar
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    I have written to the NRA seeking further clarification on these issues and thus far I have received no response.
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    Lifetime NRA member

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