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Neighbor with rifle at your front door - legal to shoot him?

7K views 38 replies 19 participants last post by  gatorhazard 
#1 ·
#2 ·
The article I read yesterday said the man with the rifle was not charged as he had not committed any crime (per local LEA). with that in mind would you be charged for putting lead into him? What if he was armed because he saw a prowler around your house and came to warn you?
 
#3 · (Edited)
^^^ What Xbonz said.
IMO, a call to 911 and take up a position inside the house with your favorite 'home defense' shotgun or rifle. If he kicks in the door, take him out. If he doesn't enter, let the cops nab him. I'm still a bit confused as to why he was let out with minor charges and no mention of motive?
 
#5 ·
This crazy person is a ticking time bomb and should be in jail or someplace locked up. He would probably have killed the family if he had entered that house.
If he was really not charged with anything, These people should move out of that neighborhood "FAST"
The guy probably has connections at city hall.
After he kills the people they will blame it on him having a gun.Yep, The gun was at fault not the person.
GGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Ronnie
 
#6 ·
Would I "engage" (shoot through the door)? F-no. For many reasons. But, no. I don't take defensive advice from Joe Biden. ;)

I get the family away from the door and with as many barriers as possible between them and the BG. I get on the horn with 911, and set up the "funnel" if he is stupid enough to break through the door. THEN I engage.

- - - Updated - - -

By the way the BG was staggering... he was drunk. Very drunk.
 
#7 ·
What's this about not being charged??? The article states he was charged with 3 counts of aggravated assault - all are 3rd class felonies.

I would never shoot through a door to the outside, I'd use the internal layout of my house to my advantage and his disadvantage so as to make sure he was DRT two steps through the door. It would be hard to overcome in court, I would think, any kind of inside-to-outside shooting given the guy rang the doorbell. Just imagine the kind of sob story his attorney is going to tell the jury about why he rang the doorbell and only appeared menacing but meant no real harm.
 
#9 ·
I had to read the article three times.

I speculate that the aggravated assault charges are for the threats to shoot his wife and kids. I further speculate that it took a few hours and a few interviews to formally file those charges. Therefore the delay in arresting him.

Unless there are some exculpatory facts in this story, this guy needs to loose his guns forever.

I hope they tested him for BAC and add possession under the influence to the other charges.

I hope they find a way to add DV to the charges.

Then go for the plea bargain on one of the felonies.

Anything to get this guys guns to go away.
 
#11 ·
Unless there are some exculpatory facts in this story, this guy needs to loose his guns forever.
....

Anything to get this guys guns to go away.
Of course, that's in THEORY... on PAPER... you can "make his guns go away." In REALITY, it's not possible unless he's put in prison. He can get as many guns as he wants.... whether he loses his Right to, or not.

If we can't trust him with a gun (in theory), then why trust him roaming freely among us at all?
 
#14 ·
As long as he is outside, i am inside, locked door, i would call 911 and then take a position in case he try's to enter. He is out, your in, locked door between you -- would law say you weren't in immediate danger? Not justified to shoot?
 
#27 ·
How would you not be in immediate danger? I don't know about your house, but I'm pretty sure a .223 round would sail right through my front door or exterior wall.

I'm a little surprised at some of the responses. This wasn't a drunk neighbor engaging in some harmless prank; he showed up at the front door wielding an AR-15 and wearing body armor, then held his hand over the doorbell camera lens...all indications of a dangerous psychopath, not someone stopping by for a cup of coffee. :dunno
 
#16 ·
He was arrested. He hasn't been charged yet. The State Attorney has to file an "information" for formal charges to be filed. At the first appearance the judge just looks to see if the is probable cause. You can look up his arrest information on the PBSO website, but I have it right here for you Dude's Arrest Information. If the link doesn't work, you can look him up by his booking number or name. His booking number is 2018029948.

Currently he has no bond. He was likely Baker Acted and is probably at a psych hospital right now. They will revisit the bail issue once he gets back from the psych ward.
 
#18 · (Edited)
I'm confused. I know there is a formal due process that has legal terms that we tend to use informally/incorrectly, but the inmate search page indicates that he has been "charged" with three felony counts of 784.021; aggravated assault. Does that really mean that he has been arrested for 784.021 but not yet charged?

So, when you say he has not been charged yet, could you explain the process after one is cuffed and stuffed. What exactly happens, using proper legal terms like "arraigned" and "information"? Probable cause hearing?
 
#22 ·
Michael is a great addition to the other knowledgeable individuals on this forum... Thanks for joining, Michael.

As for Brownie's 'Slip out the back...' Geography around my place makes it safer to remain inside, be prepared, and call 911. If it wasn't for that.... Yeah, beat feet.
 
#31 · (Edited)
If this neighbor is part of our neighborhood watch then he has my phone number and could call me if there is a concern, I know just about all my (Armed) neighbors. If they were a threat then take up defensive position. Call 911 and call my B.I.L. who lives next door and he can recon and cover front of house as he is heavily armed with body armor. If disgruntled person attempts to break in door while armed he shall receive a wall of 7.62x51from me and 7.62x51 from daughter and 30-30 from B.I.L. from his position. After all he does have a vest!
 
#33 ·
You be the judge. Boldface in text is mine.

784.011 Assault.—
(1) An “assault” is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.
(2) Whoever commits an assault shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

784.021 Aggravated assault.—
(1) An “aggravated assault” is an assault:
(a) With a deadly weapon without intent to kill; or
(b) With an intent to commit a felony.

(2) Whoever commits an aggravated assault shall be guilty of a felony of the third degree,
punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

He was armed with a rifle, wearing a vest, ringing a neighbor's doorbell while intentionally covering the camera lens around 11PM. Pretty safe bet he isn't out trying to locate a lost puppy. The occupants of the house were in fear enough to hide in a bathroom and call 911. They had previously housed the man's daughter for a couple days when the daughter AND wife left the man out of fear he would harm them. The man had made previous threats to harm his family.

The police took him into custody under arrest and he's been Baker Acted. They usually don't do that to people trying to locate a lost dog.

What else would you need to know?
 
#34 ·
#38 · (Edited)
Court records show that Kevin Joseph Flaherty was charged Tuesday by the Palm Beach County State Attorney’s Office with armed trespassing, possession of a bulletproof vest while committing a felony and open carrying of weapons.

https://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/new...ching-home-with-rifle/s9983eLFkakI3n2u56Yw2L/
Wow, the confusion by the media and the charges brought by the prosecuter are really strange.

According to the PBSO jail website 3 additional charges have been filed.

Seems like the only thing they got right was the "open carry." (But I'm pretty sure he was stopping by the house to see if anyone wanted to go fishing with him)

First, no
thing about a vest. Just for the sake of discussion there is a statute concerning vests, but it does not seem to apply in this case:

775.0846 Possession of bulletproof vest while committing certain offenses.—(1) As used in this section, the term “bulletproof vest” means a bullet-resistant soft body armor providing, as a minimum standard, the level of protection known as “threat level I,” which shall mean at least seven layers of bullet-resistant material providing protection from three shots of 158-grain lead ammunition fired from a .38 caliber handgun at a velocity of 850 feet per second.
(2) No person may possess a bulletproof vest while, acting alone or with one or more other persons, he or she commits or attempts to commit any murder, sexual battery, robbery, burglary, arson, aggravated assault, aggravated battery, kidnapping, escape, breaking and entering with intent to commit a felony, criminal gang-related offense under chapter 874, controlled substance offense under chapter 893, or aircraft piracy and such possession is in the course of and in furtherance of any such crime.
(3) Any person who violates this section commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
History.—s. 1, ch. 85-29; s. 1186, ch. 97-102; s. 3, ch. 2008-238.


They have charged him with possession of armor piercing ammunition, but I'm not sure why??:

790.31 Armor-piercing or exploding ammunition or dragon’s breath shotgun shells, bolo shells, or flechette shells prohibited.—(1) As used in this section, the term:(a) “Armor-piercing bullet” means any bullet which has a steel inner core or core of equivalent hardness and a truncated cone and which is designed for use in a handgun as an armor-piercing or metal-piercing bullet.

(b) Any person who possesses an armor-piercing bullet or exploding bullet with knowledge of its armor-piercing or exploding capabilities loaded in a handgun,


Finally, I don't think the armed trespass is going to stick:

810.08 Trespass in structure or conveyance.–
(1) Whoever, without being authorized, licensed, or invited, willfully enters or remains in any structure or conveyance, or, having been authorized, licensed, or invited, is warned by the owner or lessee of the premises, or by a person authorized by the owner or lessee, to depart and refuses to do so, commits the offense of trespass in a structure or conveyance.

(2)(a) Except as otherwise provided in this subsection, trespass in a structure or conveyance is a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(b) If there is a human being in the structure or conveyance at the time the offender trespassed, attempted to trespass, or was in the structure or conveyance, the trespass in a structure or conveyance is a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082or s. 775.083.
(c) If the offender is armed with a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or arms himself or herself with such while in the structure or conveyance, the trespass in a structure or conveyance is a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

:dunno

And I don't know why everything I paste is resized by the site?

 
#36 ·
Just gotta wait until this lunatic gets loose and retaliates against the family. He was mad before and he will be livid now.
Ronnie
 
#39 ·
Without having read any other comments I am going to say most definitely NO. No, no, no, you cant just go throwing rounds at the person through your door and walls. Its unfortunate but without any other knowledge you don't know what this guy is doing. Far fetched but what if this guy tried robbing the neighbor and he was able to put on his stuff and followed perp who went to YOUR house (when I was a kid we actually had a neighbor jump over our backyard wall armed one night, to protect us, was a WWII vet who had been shot down behind enemy lines, a great man and grandfather figure to me even though I had grandparents, he was just a great man, even in his later days)? Again, I know that is not likely but crazier things have happened. If I am in my house and have video surveillance capability I am arming myself and calling police or calling police and finding my route of escape or calling police and hiding. I am not doing any of the last two if I have a gun. Then I am hoping you don't enter my house, if you do, you are getting shot if I have a safe line.
 
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