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Thread: Changes to Florida's Laws?

  1. #11
    Distinguished Member racer88's Avatar
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    Yeehaaaa! This is awesome.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Uh, I issue the required paperwork to allow Canadians to bring their firearms in using the "Form 6" from the ATF (or whomever handles it this month.)

    They need to do something up there but they do need my list of scheduled events that they will be attending and then they can legally bring their firearms into the country.

    Happens all the time, especially "in season".

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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Well, I have to assume none of you have ever competed in IDPA or IPSC, or you would know that Canadians are in the US with their own guns competing in those events all the time. Being a Florida Concealed Carry forum, I expected at least a few of you to be knowledgeable about firearms laws. Apparently not, so if I've offended you, **** off.

    Edit: Also, not one response to my OP has contained factual information. I'm asking the wrong people.
    Whoa! I was one of many that welcomed you to the forum and if you stick around here long enough, you'll soon realize there are some very knowledgeable people on many of the intricate details of the Florida Statutes. However, your question is not a common one! Canadians brining their firearms across the US-Canada border for IDPA, USPSA, hunting, etc. is one thing, but being granted a Florida CWFL by DOACS is another kettle of fish!

    You provide anecdotal information about several Canadians you know who carry in the USA, some of whom may have a Florida CWFL, but no real detail on the specific situations of those individuals, such as are they visitors on a visa for hunting or other sport or "permanent resident aliens," an important term for the purposes of obtaining a Florida CWFL.

    As has been stated previously in this thread, for an non-US citizen individual to be able to obtain a Florida CWFL, that individual must be a lawful permanent resident alien in possession of the required documentation issued by the US Citizenship and Immigration Service (USCIS). The law has been that way since anyone can remember but you get abrasive because FCC members weren't able to recite the Florida Statutes pertaining to your particular situation as a Canadian citizen! Really dude? [BTW, you can test your specific circumstances by going to this questionnaire on the Florida DOACS website.] Then you tell at least one member here "if I offended you, **** off." Before that, you tell others that you won't be visiting Florida if our state won't give you, a self-described non-resident alien Canadian that apparently does not meet the eligibility requirements for issue of a Florida CWFL.

    So, Renegade, I strongly suggest YOU THROTTLE BACK YOUR ABRASIVE ATTITUDE and attempted foul language in your post [thankfully caught by the author editor] or you will not last long here, I guarantee it!
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  5. #14
    Distinguished Member BrianB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Here is a thread from several years ago about Canadians getting CCWs for Florida: http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/...s-florida.html

    There is a similar thread from the USA Carry forum about Canadians having CCWs for Florida, but it was from 2009. A lot has changed since then.
    All due respect, but just because some dude said it on a forum somewhere does not make it fact. I am a firearms instructor and follow the Florida and federal gun laws pretty closely, and I am not aware that Florida has ever amended 790.06 to allow issuance of a CWFL to aliens in general. That said it does appear that at one point aliens who were at least residents of the U.S. were so-permitted.

    I went back to the statutes as they existed in 2007 (the date on the posting you linked to) and here is the relevant portion of 790.06 (790.06(2)(a)) as it read then:

    (a) Is a resident of the United States or is a consular security official of a foreign government that maintains diplomatic relations and treaties of commerce, friendship, and navigation with the United States and is certified as such by the foreign government and by the appropriate embassy in this country;
    [...]
    (m) Is not prohibited from purchasing or possessing a firearm by any other provision of Florida or federal law.

    So if you had some sort of dual residency and lawfully lived in the U.S. part of the time and in Canada part of the time (an actual "residence", not just visiting), then as the law read in 2007 you could probably obtain a CWFL even if you were a non-citizen. But not just for non-residents who visit occasionally.

    Since 2007 790.06(2)(a) has changed and now reads:

    (a) Is a resident of the United States and a citizen of the United States or a permanent resident alien of the United States, as determined by the United States Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services, or is a consular security official of a foreign government that maintains diplomatic relations and treaties of commerce, friendship, and navigation with the United States and is certified as such by the foreign government and by the appropriate embassy in this country;

    It would appear that change was made effective in 2008.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Florida now has the requirement of US citizenship for a CCW, but NH does not, and 23 states recognize the non-resident CCW. I never said I was going to try to get a Pennsylvania CCW. Pennsylvania is one of the states that recognize the NH non-resident CCW.
    As you probably know, Florida does not recognize any non-resident license. If however you were a part-time resident of the state that issued the license, then it's not a non-resident license. Most states don't actually have "resident" and "non-resident" licenses. Most are like Florida which has only one license, and is the the licensee that is either a resident or not. The license you get is identical to the license a resident gets, and the only difference in status is based upon whether or not you are presently a resident of that state.

    This could get tricky. If you live in Canada 6 months out of the year, and live in Pennsylvania 6 months out of the year, and you had a Pennsylvania concealed carry license, then during the time that you actually resided in Pennsylvania you could travel to Florida and carry here on your PA license. But during the 6 months of the year that you resided in Canada, you could not travel to Florida and carry on your PA license because you would not be a resident of PA at that time.

    When looking at statutes to respond to your post I came across something I had not noticed before. F.S. 790.015 (the statute that provides for concealed carry reciprocity) is titled "790.015 Nonresidents who are United States citizens and hold a concealed weapons license in another state; reciprocity". Despite the fact that the title of the section includes the words "who are United States citizens", the section itself includes no such requirement - requiring only that one be a resident of the United States.

    So while you must be a U.S. citizen to get a FL CWFL, it would appear that if you are a lawful resident of another state that issues permits to non-citizens, during the time that you are residing there your permit would be valid in FL (assuming FL has reciprocity with your state).

    Of course I'm not an attorney and this is not legal advice, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    I guess I shouldn't expect anyone to be familiar with laws that don't apply to them, but I remember when you lost the OC battle. Maybe the non-resident clause was part of that bill.
    The only "bill" involved with "losing the OC battle" would have been in 1987 when the legislature hastily "fixed" their "oversight" of not banning open carry when they preempted all local ordinances. Any other events of losing the OC battle would have involved failure to pass a bill, not passage of a bill.

    Also, you need not wonder about any of this stuff. If you go here you will find the current version of Florida Statutes chapter 790, and there is a dropdown at the top of the page that will let you view the statutes as they stood in any year going back to 1997. If you want to go back further than that Florida State University maintains an online archive with the statutes as they stood from 1955 to 1996.

    Hope all this helps.
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  6. #15
    Distinguished Member BrianB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerHunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Well, I have to assume none of you have ever competed in IDPA or IPSC, or you would know that Canadians are in the US with their own guns competing in those events all the time. Being a Florida Concealed Carry forum, I expected at least a few of you to be knowledgeable about firearms laws. Apparently not, so if I've offended you, **** off.

    Edit: Also, not one response to my OP has contained factual information. I'm asking the wrong people.
    Whoa! I was one of many that welcomed you to the forum and if you stick around here long enough, you'll soon realize there are some very knowledgeable people on many of the intricate details of the Florida Statutes. However, your question is not a common one!
    (snip)
    So, Renegade, I strongly suggest YOU THROTTLE BACK YOUR ABRASIVE ATTITUDE and attempted foul language in your post [thankfully caught by the author editor] or you will not last long here, I guarantee it!
    Yeah, I kinda wish I had seen his nasty post before I invested an hour composing my reply. I probably wouldn't have bothered. What happened to the stereotype of Canadians being uber polite? This one is kind of a turd.
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  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianB View Post
    Yeah, I kinda wish I had seen his nasty post before I invested an hour composing my reply. I probably wouldn't have bothered. What happened to the stereotype of Canadians being uber polite? This one is kind of a turd.
    Agree with your post 100%, with the exception of the words, "kind of."
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  8. #17
    Distinguished Member Riverpigusmc's Avatar
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    Maybe it WAS that Canadian on FB...
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  9. #18
    Distinguished Member flphotog's Avatar
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    I live in the Clearwater area and we get a lot of canadians here in the winter and I wish they would all just stay home.
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  10. #19
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    To most of you, my first post had nothing rude or unfriendly at all, and I was met with a lot or rudeness before my second post, so I am not the turd here. Look in the mirror. My mistake was thinking imbeciles would have accurate information, and I don't care if I last long here, because you don't even know your own gun laws. It's pretty funny when a Canadian knows more about US gun laws than stupid Americans who carry every day. Go back and read the rude posts right after my first post. You have some real a,s.s,h.o.l.e.s in this forum. Next time maybe try being friendly from the start, and you won't end up with hostility responding to your hostility.

    And concerning Canadians with CCWs, one friend at work, not a dual citizen, was part of a group of gun nuts who put their money together and flew a Utah CCW instructor into Ontario to teach them the course. They all got Utah CCW permits, and used them in whatever states honored the Utah permit. I don't know what state permit my other friends have their's from.

    After those Germans were shot, a politician was all over the news telling people who wished to vacation in Florida that they could get a CCW when they visited. I remember it specifically. It was a legislative provision which was a kneejerk reaction to the shooting.

  11. #20
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    So while you must be a U.S. citizen to get a FL CWFL... - BrianB

    Has this recently changed? I know someone personally who is not a U.S. citizen with a green card that also has her CCW.

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