Florida Concealed Carry banner

Open carry in car

27K views 92 replies 31 participants last post by  ArthurDent 
#1 ·
Hey guys, quick question...I feel this is a gray area...I'm a licensed carry, I always keep my XD holstered, but in the car I keep it holstered sitting in my cup holder or between my seat and console...question is....is this legal?


Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 
See less See more
1
#2 ·
Old subject debated ad nauseum........due a search on the subject..........lots of opinions.......roll the dice.....what i see is illegal...there is no open carry in vehicles......
 
#5 · (Edited)
Welcome to FCC, bconti1988! :wave

Since you made your first post to the Florida Concealed Carry (FCC) Forum in the form of a question instead of an introduction, now would be a really good time to go back and make a more traditional first post by starting you're own Introduction thread to the forum so the members get to know you. You can do that by going to the Introduce Yourself section of The Front Office and start your very own introduction thread. Then you'll find that lots of other FCC members will know to chime in to properly welcome you to the forum, and might also be more responsive in answering questions!

In case you weren't aware, you can stay current on pertinent Florida Statutes regarding use of force and firearms law by going right to the source using these links for Chapter 776 - Justifiable Use of Force and Chapter 790 - Weapons and Firearms. I'd also like to suggest you obtain your own copy of FLORIDA FIREARMS Law, Use & Ownership by Jon Gutmacher!

Again, welcome to FCC! :grin
 
#13 · (Edited)
Gutmacher pg 85 - SECURELY ENCASED - "Securely encased" means that the weapon or firearm must be is in some type of holster, bag, enclosure, box, or container that is secured with a clasp, lid, zipper, strap, snap, flap, or other device, so that in order to fire or use the weapon, the devise must first be opened, removed or undone. It does not require a lock.

What he says on another page is the gun must be concealed, but the securely encased part ( holster with a strap, without covering ) may be ok, but is taking a risk depending on the LE stopping you. The laws are not always clear cut and can be misinterpreted or misinformed by LE.

I talk gun law with LE frequently and most in my area are well informed, however I was talking to one LE few weeks ago and he said he carries off-duty in his car on his lap in a holster. I asked him if he knew that was open carry and he looked at me funny and said it wasn't. I offered to bet him on that and he declined and instantly went on his phone to look at the statue. After a minute he looked up and said " I guess your right "

From the picture in OP, open carry
 
#8 ·
Even if it was legal.... It shouldn't take much imagination to conjure the resulting scenario if you are pulled over for a traffic stop, and the officer sees that.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Your FLCWFL authorizes concealed carry only.

There are other statutes that address your question.

Generally, open carry is prohibited. There are exceptions contained in 790.25 that I will link below.

A careful reading of 790.25 will leave you thinking that open carry in your vehicle is one of the exceptions.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ing=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.25.html

Some of the notable exceptions:

(h) A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;

(i) A person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of any such person while engaged in the lawful course of such business;
(j) A person firing weapons for testing or target practice under safe conditions and in a safe place not prohibited by law or going to or from such place;
(k) A person firing weapons in a safe and secure indoor range for testing and target practice;
(l) A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person’s manual possession;
(m) A person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a secure wrapper, concealed or otherwise, from the place of purchase to his or her home or place of business or to a place of repair or back to his or her home or place of business;
(n) A person possessing arms at his or her home or place of business;

(l) seems to apply to your question but you will need to know the definition of "securely encased." See 790.001(17).

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.001.html

(17) “Securely encased” means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.

IANAL and this is certainly not legal advice. It is what you want to show your attorney as he prepares your defense, if you can't convince the arresting officer that some guy on the internet understands the law better than him/her. :grin joke.

Now that you have the information, you will have to decide if OC is worth the possible hassle, of encountering a LEO who does not understand the statutes.

Personally, I open carry to and from the range and have never had a problem. But then, I've never been stopped by a LEO.

ETA: The term "snapped in a holster" is the key here and the holster in your picture does not appear to have any type of "snap."

It might be easier to just keep a small towel in the car to throw over the gun. But that's just how I would do it.
 
#10 ·
Only a snapped holster would make legal as I see it .....but still not wise.

Like shooter4 said.... search the subject in past threads... and after reading thousands of opinions you might get to same conclusion many had before you... throw a #%$$%# rag over it and be done with it. :grin
 
#79 ·
Only a snapped holster would make legal as I see it .....but still not wise.

Like shooter4 said.... search the subject in past threads... and after reading thousands of opinions you might get to same conclusion many had before you... throw a #%$$%# rag over it and be done with it. :grin
Priceless
 
#12 ·
I personally keep my pistol in my console with cover closed and inside a Kydex holster. I also wear my pistols concealed on my person when I drive. I only open carry at the range when I get out of car to the time I leave, I don't wish to become a test case on the side of some street with a law enforcement officer who may be having a bad day. I have been there done that, I was arrested for concealed carry of a shotgun in my back seat of a vehicle, beat the charge because officer put in his report that he "observed a long arm partially covered by clothing in my back seat". Key word partially, if partially concealed then it was by default partially visable. Don't be that test case, it is not worth it, took me almost a year to fight it!
 
#16 ·
Exactly, that's why I informed everyone about a real and actual incident when I was pulled over and cop seen a shotgun in my back seat while standing on outside of vehicle looking in. He screwed the pooch and made a big mistake but I was still arrested and taken to jail then bonded out. The County thought for sure I was going to sue them.
 
#19 ·
you can't keep a coach gun or AR in a hanging soft case behind the truck seat? I do it all the time
 
#17 · (Edited)
Qualified immunity sucks.

I don't expect a LEO to know all of the laws, but I do expect them to know the laws for which they are arresting me.

They need to be personally responsible for knee jerk arrests.

Don't get me wrong. I support LEOs 100 percent when they do their job correctly. But they need to slow down and think. GUN is not an excuse.

LEOs have every right to go home to their family every night. But once the scene is secure, stop and look at the totality of the circumstanses.

Gun does not equal bad.

Good guys have been carrying guns in Florida since 1987. It is time for LEOs to accept reality. 30 years is long enough.

790.25 is a relatively easy read. learn it or get sued.
 
#21 ·
"Brief display" isn't illegal. As long as there is something nearby that arguably could have been previously covering the gun, then one might say "oops, sorry, I had this handkerchief over that - I must have knocked it off - (puts handkerchief back over gun) - there, now it's concealed again". :)

790.053 Open carrying of weapons.—
(1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device. It is not a violation of this section for a person licensed to carry a concealed firearm as provided in s. 790.06(1), and who is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, to briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.​
 
#24 ·
My rifle and shotgun stay concealed in a hanging zippered gun rack..hangs from the front seat headrests in my truck
 
#29 ·
I think there is lack of understanding what is "open CARRY" in a vehicle, and what is having a hand gun in the open inside a vehicle. Open carry is having the firearm exposed while actually on your person, not just out in the open in the vehicle.
 
#31 ·
With all due respect this is not correct. F.S. 790.053 prohibits "open carry on or about the person". The "or about" part is important. The courts have generally held that "or about" means "readily accessible" and generally includes the interior of an automobile if the person is inside said automobile and the firearm is accessible to them.
 
#30 ·
^^^^
Important distinction! :thumsup
 
#33 · (Edited)
Just when I think I have this figured out, we do it again and confuse me.

I posit:

790.25 trumps 790.053.

(3) LAWFUL USES.—The provisions of ss.790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:

So, disregarding the hysterical reaction of a LEO...

And by the stritc parsing of the statute;

(l) A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person’s manual possession

I can openly carry a handgun, on my person while traveling in my private conveyance, with or without a license issued iaw 790.06.

Not a recommendation...just a strick interpritation of 790.25.

What say you.:popcorn
 
#35 ·
As long as your holster has some sort of retention device that must be disengaged before the weapon can be fired, you would be right. But if the holster has no retention device at all, then no good. See 790.001(17).
 
#40 ·
Does "ordinary view" encompass prowling (people peering into your vehicle interior) uninvited?
And what about while driving? - It certainly is not ordinary for folks to be able to run 60 mph. (Or 100+ if you're traveling in Miami rush hour.)

AND if they do happen to glance through your heavily tinted windows, while you are stopped at a traffic light, then wouldn't that just constitute brief and open display (not intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner).

I think I know the answers to the above.
I'm just wondering if those "explanations" would ever hold up under scrutiny.
 
#42 ·
The brief exposure exception require that the gun was (before the exposure) being carried concealed. As long as you can prove that the gun was concealed before it was NOT concealed then you are GTG... In my opinion.

The problem in the Norman case, is that no evidence was posited that the gun was ever concealed. It's a shame that Norman did not own a fishing shirt with long shirt tails.

790.053
Open carrying of weapons.—(1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device. It is not a violation of this section for a person licensed to carry a concealed firearm as provided in s.790.06(1), and who is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, to briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.
 
#43 ·
This is a great conversation and one of the reasons I joined this forum: to learn. When I first read this post, my first impression was that it was illegal (regardless of CCW status). I asked my son, who is a LEO and he said it was legal. I challenged him on it and he reached out to some other LEOs. You guessed it, mixed bag of responses (legal, illegal, depends). Even my son said it depends on who pulls you over. We had a pretty good discussion for legality and I can tell you this, I'm not willing to risk my safety, finances and possible confinement on unclear and subject to interpretation laws and moody/un-knowledgeable (gun law) LEOs. A common theme among the posts seems to be don't take the chance.

From post#41: Of course, to and from the range is perfectly legal so I'm really not taking a big chance. If fact, I'm looking for a payday if ever arrested.

Can you clarify? All I've seen was camping, hunting and fishing.
 
#45 · (Edited)
790.25 (link below)

(h) A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;
(i) A person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of any such person while engaged in the lawful course of such business;
(j) A person firing weapons for testing or target practice under safe conditions and in a safe place not prohibited by law or going to or from such place;
(k) A person firing weapons in a safe and secure indoor range for testing and target practice;
(l) A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person’s manual possession;
(m) A person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a secure wrapper, concealed or otherwise, from the place of purchase to his or her home or place of business or to a place of repair or back to his or her home or place of business;
(n) A person possessing arms at his or her home or place of business;

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ing=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.25.html
 
#44 ·
From post#41: Of course, to and from the range is perfectly legal so I'm really not taking a big chance. If fact, I'm looking for a payday if ever arrested.

Can you clarify? All I've seen was camping, hunting and fishing.
790.25
(J) practice shooting ...blah blah...going and coming from such a place



....from phone
 
#54 ·
lots of questions in this thread... There is case law that says the vehicle itself does not conceal a firearm (that way a licensee could be prosecuted for misdemeanor Open Carry)... There is other case law that says a gun inside a car was concealed by the vehicle itself (so that an openly possessed firearms could be considered felony concealed carry).. Then there was the case where the gun was partially visible and therefore partially concealed (upholding conviction for felony concealed carry of a gun that was immediately visible. Be careful out there, the courts don't like us.
 
#55 · (Edited)
So true. An anti-gun judge or anti-gun LEO, can make all of our interpretations, of the statutes, meaningless. That is why there is a difference between the parsing of the statutes and the recommendations for our behaviors.

One has to be willing to fund our own defense if we feel strongly about a particulate statute/behavior. I have chosen: (j) A person firing weapons for testing or target practice under safe conditions and in a safe place not prohibited by law or going to or from such place; and am willing to fund my pet peeve.

I hope that I will recover any of my costs if arrested. If I need to, I hope I can help with all the case law stuff.

Nothing I have said in this thread was a recommended behavior, just a parsing of the statutes. I have said a number of times that I DO NOT recommend any action based upon the parsing of the statutes, because LEOs may not understand the statutes.

For my part, this has been a hypothetical/purely academic discussion of the statutes as they are written.
 
#58 ·
Not to derail the thread (temporarily), but what locksmith credentials are you referring to?
I ask because I often carry a pick set and other tools in my toolbox, as well as a fairly large set of bolt cutters. :)
(Hey, I didn't say I was any good!) :)

I often work at remote locations and sometime the locks do not cooperate, but in all cases they are our locks, or we have legitimate right of access.
 
#60 ·
I wouldn't worry too much about your burglary tools in your toolbox. I too got licensed and bonded as a locksmith back in the day and still carry lock picks in my vehicle - but the credentials aren't really necessary.

F.S. 810.06 requires "intent" be proven - simple possession of lock picks or other tools that might be used in a burglary is not sufficient to sustain a charge.

This attorney's page does a pretty good job of explaining.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top