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SB 646-Protection of Licensees...

8K views 96 replies 15 participants last post by  NavyCPO 
#1 ·
...is up in the Senate JU committee on Tuesday, 3/28 at 1500.

This is the companion bill to HB 779, which passed the House JU committee yesterday.

Please see the proposed amendments.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2017/00646
 
#2 · (Edited)
Very interesting on how the "Temporary" wording will be construed, I can say that if I'm driving to the store and walk in with open carry temporarily then go back to vehicle eliminating exposure. After all, temporary is opposite of permanent and I would not be permanently open carrying weapon or firearm. I see Law Enforcement letting the explanation and argument over Temporary being argued in court the same as innocence vs guilty and arresting those found open carrying as order of the day. Then again, if someone makes a big deal about your open carry you could just cover firearm with shirt tail etc. and when LE shows up it's concealed and original complainant has no grounds to support claim.
 
#4 ·
As I elaborated upon in another post, given the proposed wording change to 790.06, for CWFL holders does it really matter?

That said, I like SB 646 better than HB 779, but since it is assigned to the Senate JU committee, over which Princess Benedict lords (for all practical purposes), does it stand a chance in hell?
 
#5 · (Edited)
Where am I not understanding? The post states SB 646 as a companion to HB 779 and I read "Temporary" in SB 646-Protection of licensees?

Have we reached a point to where we need to do a national call to arms to get national pressure from visitors and tourists to Florida in on this?
 
#6 ·
Where am I not understanding? The post states SB 646 as a companion to HB 779 and I read "Temporary" in SB 646-Protection of licensees?
Rvrctyrngr is pointing out that the language regarding "temporarily" is in 790.06 and not 790.053. Hence you would arguably violate 790.053 every time you "displayed", even briefly or maybe even accidentally. But the changes to 790.06 specifically state that a CWFL holder does not violate 790.053 if they display "temporarily", so to my reading this would negate that concern. The only concern left would be the "but that's an affirmative defense" argument, which I don't think is an issue for the reasons that I covered in my other post.

Granted, in the Senate version it simply says "does not violate s. 790.053 and may not be arrested or charged with a crime", instead of the House version which says "does not violate s. 790.053 and may not be arrested or charged with a noncriminal or criminal violation of s. 790.053."

Since the Senate version decriminalizes open carry for everyone it would seem this is a drafting error in the Senate version as violating 790.053 wouldn't be a crime anymore anyway.
 
#7 ·
Rvrctyrngr is pointing out that the language regarding "temporarily" is in 790.06 and not 790.053. Hence you would arguably violate 790.053 every time you "displayed", even briefly or maybe even accidentally. But the changes to 790.06 specifically state that a CWFL holder does not violate 790.053 if they display "temporarily", so to my reading this would negate that concern. The only concern left would be the "but that's an affirmative defense" argument, which I don't think is an issue for the reasons that I covered in my other post.

Granted, in the Senate version it simply says "does not violate s. 790.053 and may not be arrested or charged with a crime", instead of the House version which says "does not violate s. 790.053 and may not be arrested or charged with a noncriminal or criminal violation of s. 790.053."

Since the Senate version decriminalizes open carry for everyone it would seem this is a drafting error in the Senate version as violating 790.053 wouldn't be a crime anymore anyway.
That was the original intent of the bill.

My point being...that even in 779 (which the Senate version WILL be amended to reflect), a straight-up violation of 790.053 by a licensee is still only a civil fine for the first two offenses.

790.06 comes into play if you are lawfully concealing to begin with.

In my case...omw to work, OCing as I do every day, if I go into the local Stop n Rob to get a pack of smokes and do not remove my firearm, I am violating 790.053. Under the current version of the Senate Bill, It's a non-criminal civil infraction the first two offenses, licensed or not. Since I am licensed, under HB 779, it would still be a non-criminal civil infraction for the first two offenses.

Would I expect to be arrested? Yup. Florida law severely frowns upon LE who arrest folks for non-criminal violations...qualified immunity goes right out the window.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Even though the bill does read "who is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner and whose firearm is temporarily and openly displayed", I think this will rarely be relevant. In order for it to be relevant the state would have to prove that at no time prior to your temporary display was your firearm concealed.
That is exactly how Norman ended up going (hopefully) to SCOTUS.

At trial, the court ruled that his firearm had never been properly concealed, so 'briefly' didn't apply to him. State didn't prove a damn thing. It was sure as hell relevant to him.

As to the vehicle being a vessel of concealment in and of itself, no case law exists, and you will find a line of attorneys on either side of that argument.

The words are what they are, Brian, and each one has meaning.
 
#10 · (Edited)
As to the vehicle being a vessel of concealment in and of itself, no case law exists, and you will find a line of attorneys on either side of that argument.

The words are what they are, Brian, and each one has meaning.
In addition to the vehicle possibly concealing the firearm that is on your body, you may also have stowed the firearm beneath the seat during your trip. A firearm beneath the seat is a concealed weapon and is only lawful if you have a CWFL. Plenty of case law behind that fact pattern.
 
#13 ·
SB-646 coming up on 3/28

URGENT ALERT ! Open Carry Protection in Sen. Judiciary Tues. 3/28/2017
DATE: March 24, 2017
TO: USF & NRA Member and Friends
FROM: Marion P. Hammer
USF Executive Director
NRA Past President

SB-646 by Sen. Greg Steube will be heard by the Senate Judiciary Committee on Tuesday, March 28, 2017, between 3:00-5:00pm.

SB-646 Open Carrying by Sen. Greg Steube removes the criminal penalties for violations of the open carry law and prohibits a person who has a concealed firearms license from being arrested and charged with a crime if their firearm becomes temporarily exposed to sight of another person. (See background below)

Please EMAIL the following Senate members IMMEDIATELY and URGE them to SUPPORT SB-646

IN THE SUBJECT LINE PUT: SUPPORT SB-646 in Senate Judiciary Committee

(To send your message to all just Block and Copy All email addresses into the "Send To" box)

steube.greg@flsenate.gov,
benacquisto.lizbeth@flsenate.gov,
bracy.randolph@flsenate.gov,
flores.anitere@flsenate.gov,
garcia.rene@flsenate.gov,
gibson.audrey@flsenate.gov,
mayfield.debbie@flsenate.gov
powell.bobby@flsenate.gov,
thurston.perry@flsenate.gov

These Senate Committee members need to hear from you. Please email them IMMEDIATELY.

Background

This bill is about stopping abuse of law-abiding citizens who are licensed to carry concealed firearms for self-defense.

A license holder whose firearm becomes temporarily and openly displayed to the ordinary sight of another person is not a criminal and this innocent act should not be a crime.

Exercising the constitutional right to bear arms should not be subject to any penalty whatever unless that person commits a crime with the weapon or firearm.

In Florida, there are 1.7 million law-abiding license holders

Every time they leave their homes, carrying a firearm, they run the risk of that firearm becoming temporarily exposed to the sight of another person and then being treated like a criminal and charged with violating the open carry law. It's time to stop that.

It's time to stop criminalizing the exercise of a constitutional right.

Please send your email immediately.

If you care about your Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms, you cannot afford to stand by and do nothing to protect those rights. It time to STAND and FIGHT for your rights.

If you have never emailed a legislator -- DO IT NOW! If you have, then you know it helps tremendously so DO IT AGAIN! PLEASE, We're counting on you.
 
#14 ·
I'm sure I will send an email but I have to admit - since Princess Benedict is on that committee it would seem this bill is dead on arrival unless someone has screwed her head on straight for her. If this bill goes to a vote in committee, and the committee votes it down, then as I understand it this topic is DEAD for this legislative session and can't be brought up again, not even as an amendment to another bill.
 
#15 · (Edited)
And we are rooting for this bill to pass with all the uncertainly it contains? How did we go from trying to get open carry passed, to now backing a Bill that fines us for briefly or momentarily, or what ever the word of the day is at the time of arrest for showing a firearm? As said in a previous post, if this Bill is voted down, the subject is deep sixed lower than whale $hit for the session. Excuse me for being a Yankee transplant, but in Pennsylvania this would be considered a failure for gun rights and would not be backed at all till the exact definition of brief or ...insert the word of the hour here_____________was better defined.
 
#17 ·
Rooting for? Hell no!

Just making y'all aware of it being heard and what's going on with it.

FTR, Florida Carry does NOT support this bill, or it's companion HB 779.
 
#16 ·
I ain't backing it at all. Done with it
 
#18 ·
I'm done with all of them. We kiss their butts, support them, and they can't pass open carry which is the law of the land in 45 states. Screw them. No more emails, no more money, no more votes
 
#19 ·
I'm with Pig on new bills, I will make note of who votes against bills confirming our 2nd Amendment rights and vote against them.
 
#20 ·
I sent an email a little while ago but this committee definitely has to damn many libs on it. Add in one major RINO who needs to be dumped into a DEEP HOLE in the ground and we are probably in trouble.
 
#21 ·
I believe that if we must be licensed to conceal carry then open carry should by default be legal without conceal carry license.
 
#24 ·
Probably won't matter much as she will be the darling of Miami after she made the faux switch to the RINO party
 
#27 ·
I used to put 'Cape Coral' below my signature in emails to the so called 'representatives of the people' but thought that the message would not have much weight with those who wouldn't be affected by any of my votes.

Now I put 'Florida resident and voter' below my signature in the probably forlorn hope that it may carry more weight in more offices.
 
#29 ·
#30 ·
She may have been born in NY, but she's a supporter of the 2nd Amendment. She even supported campus carry, the last time around.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article40508166.html

“You certainly have my support to defend yourself the way you see fit,” Sen. Lizbeth Benacquisto, R-Fort Myers, told a woman who testified that having the ability to carry a gun on campus could have helped her when she was raped.
 
#32 ·
As we all know, This does not mean you should try to carry your gun on your hip totally exposed. Of course there are some idiot A-HOLES that will do it and think it is OK. The Bill was only meant to stop a licensed carrier from being arrested and caught in a freakin nightmare if some liberal jerk-off sees you have a gun and calls the police on you and makes a big deal out of it. It is protection for the gun owner from being arrested.
It has been 100% explained on every TV news show and of course there are some that just can't be satisfied with this huge win for CCW people. They will open carry with a handkerchief draped over the gun or some other stupid move to keep the non-gun owners pissed off.
It will be 99% of the CCW people that will use common sense and the other 2% will be total jerks just to be jerks.
Ronnie
 
#34 ·
Actually, yes I SHOULD be allowed to carry a gun on my hip totally exposed. Count me among the a**hole jerks, along with the citizens of 45 other states with open carry. How I carry is none of your nevermind
 
#47 ·
Yep. It will not be my intent to be obnoxious about it. I'm not going to "temporarily open carry" into Publix just to stir up the blue-hairs. But if a situation arises where it will greatly simplify my life to not have to conceal the gun, "temporarily" (like only part of the day - lol) then that's what will happen.
 
#49 ·
So actual open carry is dead
 
#51 ·
peachy. They snatched defeat from the jaws of victory once again
 
#55 ·
On the Senate Judiciary Committee's page there is a little yellow banner that says "Watch Today's Committee Meeting at 3:00 PM". I'm hoping that little banner will turn into a link when the time comes as I'd like to watch that meeting if I can.
 
#57 ·
It will. That's how I watch when I'm not there. It's also available on The Florida Channel

My cable provider also broadcasts The Florida Channel on one of the PBS stations.
 
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