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Concealed Carry Badge

43K views 117 replies 43 participants last post by  OrlandoDriver 
#1 ·
This post is a result of this thread: http://floridaconcealedcarry.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=8114

For the record, I do not own a badge, nor do I believe that they serve any valid purpose (for me). However, I am curious as to what others have to say on this matter because I am not the master guru on the subject. If I am wrong, I'd like to know why and if I am right, I'd like to know why. Maybe others may stumble upon this and learn some things too. After all, isn't that why we're all here? To discuss and learn?

Sorry if this has been posted before but I wanted to get some fresh perspective since it was recently brought up.
 
#2 ·
Concealed Carry Badges are gimmicks designed to part a person with his/her money.

In my opinion they serve no purpose other than the "Look at me I have a badge" fetish. And are much more of a detriment than an attribute.

Most LEO work hard to earn the right to wear a badge and hench are not overly appreciative of others using a symbol that infers on it's face that they are something that they are not.
 
#4 ·
Personally, I think you're about to start beating a dead horse especially given the response from the thread you put up in your post. There was at least one other thread found through a quick search but there have been many instances in the past where opinions have been given.

See this closed thread for example:

http://floridaconcealedcarry.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=338&highlight=badge
 
#54 ·
Yep, same here. The instructor showed us his and said they were available for purchase.

But he also recommended that we not carry them. He said that if it was flashed at an LEO, even unintentionally, that it could be a problem. And the best you could hope for is that it would have no effect on the Officer.

He went on to say that if you showed it to anyone else, well that would violate the whole concept of "concealed".
 
#9 ·
Still dont see a purpose....my ccw permit is a little "badge", if you will, that stays in my wallet....I dont need something metal and shiny when I have something that is white and blue and laminated :)
 
#10 ·
CCW badges? Did someone say opinions wanted on CCW badges? :rolf

I've given my opinion a few times in other threads, I'm with SGB on this one :thumsup

Question:

Where would you be able to utilize one in the real world to begin with?
 
#15 ·
LOL, dead horse is right!

Also consider the jeopardy of having someone claim you tried to coerse them by claiming you were an officer. Most people, I think , would give more weight to a claim of "impersonating" IF you have a bogus badge on you.

Consider that most retired LEOs carry credentials (with some exceptions ) rather than badges that no longer impart police powers.

I honestly see an analogy between these badges and guys who wear surplus military stuff and try to give the impression of being "desert vets" or "Vietnam Vets" or the like. Most real veterans really frown on bogus pretenders.
 
#16 ·
I'm surprised that none of the moderators have made an at length post on this subject and posted it as a sticky in the Newbie form. It seems that it has been discussed many times, not only here but other places as well, and everybody has a strong opinion about it. If anyone could take the time to write the end all, be all post regarding badges and why they aren't such a hot idea, it might be helpful and serve as a reference for others. Eh, just a thought.

To further the discussion, I never thought about the respect thing that was mentioned in the other post. It makes perfect sense that LEO's have a right to have a badge because they've earned the badge.

My main reason for being against them is because, as someone else had mentioned, they only serve a purpose if someone thinks you are a LEO. That said, it really goes back to the respect thing because most people respect the badge. Personally I think it is a slippery slope and we have to hold ourselves to a higher standard than the sheep. While I do like the idea that it would be nice be able to identify ourselves as the good guy, the question would then become, how do we keep the BG's from doing the same? I think we have to keep doing what we've always done which is using our head should the situation ever present itself.

On another note, I was at the flea market today and saw various badges at vendor's booths. Some were US Marshalls, others Tribal Police, others were LA Police or Connecticut Police, etc.; my question is, are they legally allowed to sell those? It seems like bad juju to me for people to be allowed to own them.
 
#17 ·
And again, for the record, I DO NOT SUPPORT concealed license holders having badges. I only made this post because the topic was brought up in an otherwise unrelated post. I thought that since people had such strong feeling about the matter, it deserved its own post. Dead horse, sure, but still brought up nevertheless.
 
#18 ·
Well... I've had a CCW for 20 years now.. and I am also a process server, have been for about 25...

I carry a process server badge on my belt that I had made up (the courts don't really issue one, but they DO give an official court picture ID on a chain), simply because when I am out serving summons and subpoenas at all hours of the day and night, and in very "bad" neighborhoods, it's useful to be identified as being "on the job", so to speak, and NOT as a lost tourist or yuppie in a shirt and tie looking to make a drug buy... I've been assaulted numerous times, and even shot at, once, before I started carrying the badge...not anxious to repeat any of it...

Does this make me some sort of foolish "wannabe"??

(Be gentle, Brownie!!):eek:
 
#23 ·
It is a free country. If you don't want the badge, then don't get the badge.

If you do want the badge, then go ahead and get it - BUT, do NOT display it, do NOT misuse it or use it for any criminal activity, and keep IT as concealed as your concealed weapon.

Remember this. If you get a badge and the Bad Guys see it, they will NOT know the difference, nor will they care.

If they see a shield there is a good chance they may draw on you and engage you thinking that you are a sworn officer and they will do anything they can to prevent themselves from being arrested.

If you get a badge, then be prepared for the responsibility that MAY come with it if you display it.
 
#24 ·
If they see a shield there is a good chance they may draw on you and engage you thinking that you are a sworn officer and they will do anything they can to prevent themselves from being arrested.
I think the pro-badge people think exactly the opposite; read: If they see a shield there is a good chance they may NOT draw on you and engage you thinking that you are a sworn officer and they will RETREAT to prevent themselves from being arrested.

Make sense? And you used the term "you" a lot; it's not me; I don't want a badge; I think they're bad juju. Just to clarify. :D
 
#26 ·
No problem but thanks so much for the clarification!

On another note, why am I checking the board first thing in the morning?!?! This place is addictive, I tell ya!
 
#27 ·
Tell me about it!
 
#28 · (Edited)
I can recall many arrests made of off duty "Special Officers" in my days in DC for Impersonating an Officer. They were usually security guards who carried their licensed (albiet very limited in powers) badges when in civilian dress and tried to impersonate being whatever Official Office they thought would impress people. Usually arrests happened in a bar setting where a drunk or high "Officer" attempted to use powers he did not really have.

It is, indeed , a slippery slope. While I understand the Process Server badge having a function (at least in responsible hands, like Fantomas') I think ANY badge not issued by a Legal Authority should not be displayed. It implies a lawful power that most who carry them don't actually have. It is, in fact, the outward symbol of a "commission" by a Governmental agency.

I have problems with the badges worn by Bounty hunters and their practices of illegal entry into homes too BUT that is another subject.

My take? IF you had displayed a badge, not being a sworn officer when I was a cop and used it to influence behavior in almost any situation, you would be arrested , period. It is not the badge but the deceitful intent INHERENT in its display to influence behavior. You have absolutely NO RIGHT TO DO SO. The guy selling them has no authority to impart for ten bucks.:banghead

I know, not quite as gentle as Brownie but a first person take from someone who has actually dealt with the "badge" scam.

As for the genuine, LEO badges that are sold by dealers. They are for collectors of Police "memorobilia" for DISPLAY ONLY. NOT for carrying. Carrying one would definitely establish IMPERSONATING an officer of a specific agency. Big no no!
 
#31 · (Edited)
Security guards in Boston used to be arrested all the time for displaying their "badge" improperly while not in uniform. I knew sheetheads who worked for some security company just to get the issued badge, who then went about their non working hours displaying it every chance they got to control someone elses behavior. Go to the point they were no longer authorized any wearing of any type of badge except on their uniform while working.

My take? IF you had displayed a badge, not being a sworn officer when I was a cop and used it to influence behavior in almost any situation, you would be arrested , period.

Same here MPDC66. In fact, if someone even "inadvertently" displayed any badge on a traffic stop who wasn't an LEO with creds to back that badge they were asked to step out of the vehicle for some conversation about why they would have a badge of any kind near their license. That they could be arrested for impersonating a law dog right then as their "inadvertent" display was not inadvertent at all when they put the badge where an officer would see it upon showing their license at a traffic stop on purpose. It showed intent to display.
 
#29 ·
Oh jeeze, I was certainly not planning to aid in the beating of this dead horse, but I started reading and...:deadhorse

'splain me this, Lucy: A piece of mall ninja bling worn as a public display to advertise that the wearer is carrying a concealed weapon?

WTF ? :rolf
 
#32 · (Edited)
Be smart, know the laws.

This is why it is important to know the laws on this subject or any subject dealing with guns as I smell one big lawsuit for false arrest if anyone is arrested for carrying a badge that is not illegal to have, especially if it doesn't say police or sheriff or lawman on it...There is no law in Florida that says it is illegal to carry any type of badge except the star badge like the sheriff dept has. If people would just say that it isn't a good idea and leave it at that then topics like this would disappear. :banghead2


"In the United States and other jurisdictions, police officers and other government officials are shielded from false arrest lawsuits through a process known as qualified immunity. This doctrine protects such officials from liability when engaged in discretionary actions such as arrests of suspects. However, the officer's actions must still not violate "clearly established law," or this protection is void. This includes executing an arrest warrant against the wrong person.

An example of this doctrine being tested is Sorrell v. McGuigan (4th Cir. 2002). A police officer detained the plaintiff based on the description of a suspect who had committed a robbery nearby, and proceeded to do a simple search for weapons. The witness who reported the robbery arrived at the scene and stated the plaintiff was the wrong person. However, the officer still arrested the plaintiff for possession of a concealed weapon, a 3" folding knife. In Maryland, non-automatic folding knives are not considered weapons under state law regardless of their length, and the lack of length limit had been upheld multiple times in the state supreme court. However, the officer erroneously believed the knife to be a weapon. The plaintiff was never prosecuted as there was technically no crime, and sued the police officer for false arrest. The officer's qualified immunity was denied by the court, and this decision was upheld in the US Court of Appeals".

In other word..Ignorance of the law is no excuse for the police..So the officer need to be careful and make sure they have legal grounds before he plays Rambo just because he thinks he can arrest someone for having a legal CCP badge. Just having the badge is not impersonating a law enforcement officer, and in Florida they are legal to have..

Sure it might cost me and others who might have a legal carried badge, a lot to fight this but the officer will be the one in the end paying for it just as much if not more. So I say if any officer in Florida stops me and see my badge.. I hope he knows the law as this is "clearly established law" and an arrest could result in an expensive personal lawsuit. But I think the police in florida would just ignore it anyway. :deadhorse
 
#33 · (Edited)
This is why it is important to know the laws on this subject or any subject dealing with guns as I smell one big lawsuit for false arrest if anyone is arrested for carrying a badge that is not illegal to have, especially if it doesn't say police or sheriff or lawman on it...There is no law in Florida that says it is illegal to carry any type of badge except the star badge like the sheriff dept has. If people would just say that it isn't a good idea and leave it at that then topics like this would disappear. :banghead2


"In the United States and other jurisdictions, police officers and other government officials are shielded from false arrest lawsuits through a process known as qualified immunity. This doctrine protects such officials from liability when engaged in discretionary actions such as arrests of suspects. However, the officer's actions must still not violate "clearly established law," or this protection is void. This includes executing an arrest warrant against the wrong person.

An example of this doctrine being tested is Sorrell v. McGuigan (4th Cir. 2002). A police officer detained the plaintiff based on the description of a suspect who had committed a robbery nearby, and proceeded to do a simple search for weapons. The witness who reported the robbery arrived at the scene and stated the plaintiff was the wrong person. However, the officer still arrested the plaintiff for possession of a concealed weapon, a 3" folding knife. In Maryland, non-automatic folding knives are not considered weapons under state law regardless of their length, and the lack of length limit had been upheld multiple times in the state supreme court. However, the officer erroneously believed the knife to be a weapon. The plaintiff was never prosecuted as there was technically no crime, and sued the police officer for false arrest. The officer's qualified immunity was denied by the court, and this decision was upheld in the US Court of Appeals".

In other word..Ignorance of the law is no excuse for the police..So the office need to be careful and make sure they have legal grounds before he plays Rambo just because he thinks he can arrest someone for having a legal CCP badge. Just having the badge is not impersonating a law enforcement officer, and in Florida they are legal to have..

Sure it might cost me and others who might have a legal carried badge, a lot to fight this but the officer will be the one in the end paying for it just as much if not more. So I say if any officer in Florida stops me and see my badge.. I hope he knows the law as this is "clearly established law" and an arrest could result in an expensive personal lawsuit. But I think the police in florida would just ignore it anyway. :deadhorse
You are "issued" a CCW license by the state. You are not "issued" a badge for the purposes of identifying you are licensed to carry a firearm concealed.

How would an officer "see" a ccw badge unless you were asked for your ccw identification? The only way for him to see that badge is if you "display" it where he'd see it when asked for your drivers license.

So we know he wouldn't see yours when asked for your drivers license at a stop because you carry yours in a holder along with your ccw issued license as you stated before. This would lead one to believe if an officer were to observe your badge when he asked for nothing more than your drivers license and registration that you were attempting to "impress" him in some manner with the "badge" that may be legal to own but NOT lawful to "display". Owning a badge, being in possession of a badge is one thing, let someone see it inadvertently for any reason and you could be charged quite easily with impersonating a police officer. It goes to intent as most people who see a badge think law dog, and the display of a badge can be considered an attempt to get people to think you are a law dog, thus attempting to control their behavior in some manner unlawfully.

You think a law dog is going to have to "pay" for your willful intent to display something when not asked for your ccw license? You've got some hard lessons ahead of you if you test this with the wrong officer.

Just where and when do you think you'll be in need of displaying this "badge" you have to even own one? From this statement you just made "So I say if any officer in Florida stops me and see my badge." leads us to believe you've thought about this enough to think you will display your badge when pulled over.

Use of the word Rambo in your post clearly demonstrates, at least to me as a former LEO, that you want the potential interaction this may cause between the two parties. Instead of going to great lengths to avoid some potential problem with LEO's and taking measures that would avoid him seeing the "badge", you're stating your mentality is to encourage the interaction between you and test him on the street at a traffic stop. There is NO reason for an officer to see that "badge" of yours unless your authorization to carry a firearm concealed is questioned for some reason and only then as you've got that cute little badge and ccw wallet put together.
 
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