Training vs. Gizmo's

[DocH]

This is good thread,and I agree with the premise of the original post,as can be evidenced by a portion of my sig line
I agree that some personal minor modifications to a particular firearm are sometimes beneficial,even if it just for the sake of more comfort as I believe brownie may have mentioned.
However,gizmos(and we all know what they are) is something that I am personally dead set against for my own use.
If someone else wants them,ok by me. For instance ,if you look back at the old gunfights and the old gunfighters,as typified by Mr. Bryce in one of Brownie's stickies,you'll see that those fights were won handily without any such gizmos that we see available today.
I know that there are legitimate improvements in certain areas,but much of this stuff is selling the latest and greatest to people who think they will not be acceptable as "operators" without them. I have a few minor mods to some of my hardware,mostly just consisting of smoothing of some of the revolver actions,but everything else is bone stock,and I'm not bad with a gun. If you have to use a pickup piece,you really need to know how,because it will not have the whiz bang stuff on it that you may like.
As has been stated,continued training and practice is what builds skills that will save you,and there are some trainers right here on this forum that can help to get you there. Besides all that,it's a lot more satisfying and fun to become really skilled with a bone stock gun.

[Hodawg]

I've stayed out of responding to this thread because I was more interested in hearing what others think, not what I already think. There have been very many insightful replies to this subject. In fact, it has evolved to display the use of relatively minor modifications such as higher visibility sights for those with hindered eyesight, ambidextrous mag & slide releases for lefties, and extended mag/slide releases for those with hand/grip problems. I totally agree. Any mod that makes the firearm more suitable for you operate the weapon in a manner conducive to its original design intent is a benefit. These types of modifications I can 100% understand. What I still can't get my head around is all of the high-speed, low-drag, super speed gun mods like compensated barrels/slides, holographic sights, competition level triggers and barrels, etc. All of that stuff for an EDC just makes absolutely no sense to me.

Beers y'all,
Ken

[Standby]

You guys know where I stand on this. Training always wins over equipment. A well trained and practiced shooter will shoot a stock gun with crappy sights and a crappy trigger relatively well. A untrained, unpracticed shooter wont necessarily shoot better by shooting a tricked out / modified gun. It always makes me laugh when people change out guns and gear in the hope of "improving" their skills!......time behind the gun, good fundamentals and training....that will improve your skills, the gun is just "the paintbrush" not the artist!

[Hodawg]

You guys know where I stand on this. Training always wins over equipment. A well trained and practiced shooter will shoot a stock gun with crappy sights and a crappy trigger relatively well. A untrained, unpracticed shooter wont necessarily shoot better by shooting a tricked out / modified gun. It always makes me laugh when people change out guns and gear in the hope of "improving" their skills!......time behind the gun, good fundamentals and training....that will improve your skills, the gun is just "the paintbrush" not the artist!

Excellent points, Will. Since we've had a few threads of late that deal with this very subject, I just thought I'd bump it to get some more input/thought.

Beers y'all,
Ken

[Scouse]

One of the most important factors in a Concealed Carry pistol, is a given, it has to fire, first time, all the time.

Picking a reliable platform, is a real good move. As a hand gun is not a howitzer,
my own CCW Pistol, a Glock 19, is manufactured to be shot a lot, and not wear to much out. I will never shoot this pistol enough, in IDPA, or practice, to wear it out, all my mega practice took place 30 years ago.

Going in to the why of the 9mm round, no pistol round is a one shot fight ender (as in a guaranteed ender) so there is every chance in a fight, where an assailant confronts you, more than one shot will be required.

Firing a round with a good track record (in actual gun fights, with autopsy back up) has to lend itself to multiple repeat shots, a manageable recoil, and reset.

I have gravitated to the 147g Winchester Ranger T, non P+. You can pick what you want.

Studying confrontations over many years, certain factors come in to play. As we are talking hand guns, let us stick to them.

In some instances, accuracy could become a major factor. For instance, someone holding a loved one, in, let us say your kitchen, this person was in the house when your Wife walked in to the kitchen, you were following, with the heavy bags.

You meet a horrifying scene, a young man is backed in to a corner of the counter top, holding a sharp knife (courtsy of the wooden block on that same counter) to your Wifes throat. He states "drop your gun!" The gun you had not realized you had drawn!

Let us say he is taller than your Wife, you can see the whole of his head, the distance from your gun muzzle to the aiming point, his top lip! Or an eye socket, is 15ft.

The question now, can you hit one of those places, at that distance, with your EDC pistol?

Time marches on, really, need to do some stuff, so let me give you a possible procedure. Ask him a question "Is that your car on my drive?" As he starts to say somthing (trust me, he would) you press the 4.5lb Glock trigger, and put a bullet through his left eye (for instance) depending on which eye gives the center brain hit. The eye socket is about a two inch hole to hit.

The question you have to ask yourself, can you hit a two inch circle, at 15ft, in good artificial light, with the trigger, sights, combination, on your carry pistol?

[Hodawg]

The question you have to ask yourself, can you hit a two inch circle, at 15ft, in good artificial light, with the trigger, sights, combination, on your carry pistol?

All day, every day, Scouse. If you can't do that with your EDC pistol, all the range mods and tricked out competition rigs that give some a fleeting sense of glory from their competition scores is for naught.

Charlie Grapes has your wife backed up against the kitchen counter with a butcher knife at her throat, and you have only one shot to change the outcome? You'd better know how to utilize your EDC REAL well, and less how to shoot your paper puncher for "score".

The only "score" I'm interested is the one where we check off the box that says "Mr. and Mrs. Hodawg wake up alive and well in the morning." If you can't do that, explain to your wife why you couldn't save her life from Charlie Grapes because your "good gun" was in the safe instead of on your hip.

Cheers y'all,
Ken

[Scouse]

All day, every day, Scouse. If you can't do that with your EDC pistol, all the range mods and tricked out competition rigs that give some a fleeting sense of glory from their competition scores is for naught.

Charlie Grapes has your wife backed up against the kitchen counter with a butcher knife at her throat, and you have only one shot to change the outcome? You'd better know how to utilize your EDC REAL well, and less how to shoot your paper puncher for "score".

The only "score" I'm interested is the one where we check off the box that says "Mr. and Mrs. Hodawg wake up alive and well in the morning." If you can't do that, explain to your wife why you couldn't save her life from Charlie Grapes because your "good gun" was in the safe instead of on your hip.

Cheers y'all,
Ken

Exactly my thoughts on this matter. But I must say, I have trained quite a few.. Who would not take just that shot!

[AnthonySmithXR]

Great post. Especially since I was being drawn to a ghost trigger and new springs for absolutely no good reason yesterday! Practice, practice, practice! Thanks again!

Eta: I was thinking, though, as was suggested above, that some mods are done 'just because I can'. Why buy a kimber 1911 when you can't get a good group with a basic Springfield? Well, because I can and I want the best (not me, but some). Also, some mods may help achieve the accuracy already inherent in the gun-like smooth and light trigger mods.

[bladenbullet]

what i cant help but notice is that the vast majority of responses to this thread are from guys who dont modify guns except out of necessity (physical limitations, different sights, etc)...the lack of participation from those who talk about trigger jobs and slick additions is telling...

i know a lot of people who think you have to own the fastest car or motorcycle on the road also...and ive seen them beat into the ground by people on much less modern machinery...

as has been said already...most arent capable of more than their gun in stock form is capable of...what you do to your gun is your business and whats cool to you is great...i dont think anyone is interested in how you modified your gun so it runs just like the state champs....because we now you arent the state champ...and some training in the right direction would probably do more for you than anything you can buy in the store...

that being said...i'm headed down the same road as you, joe...mine wasnt milk bottles...it was engine blocks and a lack of respect for the future when i did things i shouldnt have when i was young...since that training day when i blew out and had trouble with my strong hand ive noticed a trend toward less strength in the hand, stiffness and less endurance when shooting....its also affecting my trigger control...i'm thinking about a connector but want to exhaust other methods including trying some different holding techniques...i will admit the extended mag release has been a big help when my hand is fatigued...

[Scouse]

The Glock 19 comes with a lined trigger, not nice, swap it with a smooth one, a glock 3.5 connector, gives a 4.5 lb trigger, perfect.

True Glow fiber optic sights, very good at night, amazing in sunlight. The butt plug, makes for smoother magazine changes. Looks nice as well! The Glock factory extended slide release, enhances mag. change speed also.

The Gen4 Glock 19, has a magazine release that nips your middle finger, a wee snip with a sharp knife, fixed.

This pistol is now perfect!