Florida Concealed Carry banner

Single Stack 9mm Pistols for Self Defense-Yes or No

25K views 119 replies 55 participants last post by  birdman 
#1 ·
Is there any reason to own and carry a 9mm caliber pistol in single stack configuration for self defense?

Please give your reasoning behind your answer.

If you believe they have a place in your arsenal as a self defense tool, which make/model do you feel is the best one you can buy --------- and why?

Brownie
 
#2 ·
Personally I'm a fan of them. For me it's about size, with my body style (same goes for my wife) I just haven't been able to comfortably conceal a larger semi-auto that well. And not carrying isn't an option so I'll trade off some capacity for that.

I DO make sure to carry at least one extra mag on me though. Will usually keep the compact mag in the gun (to keep size down), and then carry a larger/extended mag weak side.

Currently own a Kahr CW9 and Walther PPS. Both have been flawless for me. Each have some small differences that mainly just depend on someone's individual preferences but both can be carried easily all day and still be fun to take to the range.
 
#3 ·
I carry a 7+1 Kahr P9 as my EDC, along with two spare 8-round magazines. It's as easy to conceal as many .380s and I shoot it better than the Glock 26 I also considered when I purchased it. For me it bridges the gap between a full-size service pistol and a back-up gun.

I happen to think that Kahrs are underrated...IMO they are on par with brands such as Glock, H&K, etc. in terms of quality. My P9 is the best compact pistol I've ever owned and I have no qualms about trusting my life with it.
 
#4 ·
I don't think a single-stack 9mm pistol is bad for self-defense at all. Generally, they should be more concealable, and more comfortable to where. I've rarely heard of "common" self-defense situations where someone had to dump a 15-round mag and then reload. Unskillled gangbangers shooting at each other, maybe, but not your law abiding citizens defending themselves. Someone more familiar with the stats may prove me wrong.

I think recent 1911-style 9mm pistols are much better than those made in the past, from reviews I've heard and read. It seems that manufacturers started to re-engineer the entire platform for the 9mm round, rather than try to kludge something together starting with .45ACP gun specs. Companies like Wilson Combat reportedly have improved upon one of the big failings of earlier 9mm 1911 pistols...the magazine.

Losing my train of thought here. 9mm single-stack guns for self-defense? Heck yes.

-JT
 
#5 ·
Is there a place for a 9mm single stack in a person's seld defense arsenal? Yes and no.

Granting the fact that any firearm is better for self-defense than a nail file, the 9mm cartridge is on the low end of the self defense power spectrum. A person would be much better served with a larger caliber or, if a 9mm must be used, with a high capacity [12+] magazine. But, not all people can handle a handgun chambered in a larger caliber due to hand length or lack of concealability. For them, a single stack 9mm may be just the thing. They are compact, carry more than the 5 to 7 rounds of a compact revolver and are quicker to reload, and the ammunition is readily available in a variety of rather potent loadings.

My wife has carried a S&W 908 [9 round 9mm] for several years now and really likes it. It is better than the S&W mod 36 [5 round 38spl] revolver that she used to carry.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Smaller grip size argues in favor of single stacks. I just covered that in replying to Brownie's OP on Springfield EMP. Smaller grip size is a key factor for some females. Personally, I also favor single stacks in .45 ACP even though I have some double stacks (XD .45, Taurus PT-92, & Glock 26). My son is a LEO who recently expended 6 .45 ACP rounds out of 8 at BG who tried to run him down in a car after shooting two persons at a night club. Two of the 6 shots were fatal heart shots which makes a good argument for accuracy over round count. Most shootings do not exceed the capacity of a single stack magazine. There are exceptions such as the SLC mall shooting where an off-duty LEO ran dry without a spare magazine, the LA bank robbery some time ago, or when faced with multiple threats, but these are not the norm. Having said that, I always carry a 2nd magazine. With my carry piece that gives me 15 rounds. If it takes more than that then I am SOOL!
 
#9 ·
A second mag always makes sense. After you reload, you can use the rounds in it to keeps their heads down while you scamper off into the all-concealing shadows.
 
#10 ·
Carry what you can - any gun in a fight is better than no gun. If a single stack is what you can conceal, thats great! I do agree with extra magazines, hopefully you won't need them ever, but thats also true of the gun itself - for emergency use only. I know that this seems to stir controversey but carry the most effective ammo that you can afford.
 
#11 ·
If I were to carry something with only 8 or 9 rounds it would have to be a 45. Just my two cents.
 
#12 ·
I personally find the High capacity pistols not neccesary for civillian ccw,it's not like your in the military in a war zone! A CW should not only be easily concealed but light weight not heavily laden down by ammo, If your doing your job and practicing you should be able to put your shots were there suppose to go! The more RDS a person who doesn't practice has the more apt he is going to be to just pray and spray.Most people who carry >45's carry 7+1 whats wrong with a 9mm in 7+1? I don't see the rational of the question myself?
 
#13 · (Edited)
ECHOONE

I don't see the rational of the question myself?

Where I asked the question, perhaps I can shed some light on your comment above.

The advantage of the 9mm is that a weapon platform in the form of a personal defense sidearm [ pistol ] is one of more ammo being able to be carried in a similar sized platform over say a govt model 45 1911 platform with only 7-8 rounds before having to make a reload.

As Shoot_First mentioned in his post, a single stack 9mm like the SA EMP may fit a person better who has small hands/short fingers due to it's reduced length of pull [ the distance between the front strap and back strap ]. As well, the 9mm is considered easier to control [ recoil ] than a more potent cartridge like the 40S+W, the 357SIG, 357 magnum, lightweight 38 5 shot revos, etc.

Understanding that recoil is a subjective subject, we also know from experience that many people who carry a handgun just don't have enough training/experience, let alone practice often enough with their firearm to become comfortable with the larger calibers which tend to produce/generate more recoil impulse into the shooters hand/s.

I think that should answer your question for the most part, but I'd also like to respond to some of the other statements you made---------

A CW should not only be easily concealed but light weight not heavily laden down by ammo

My glock 17's 18 rounds on board adds 9 ounces to the weight of the gun. The weight empty is 22 ounces and loaded is 31 ounces. A govt model 45 1911 in steel weights 38 ounces unloaded with perhaps 9 rounds on board which brings the weight to about 43 ounces. That's 3/4 of a pound more than my glock 17 with 18 rds loaded and ready to go.

The overall weight based on ammo capacity is a very small issue when you consider the initial weight of the various weapons platforms based on the above facts presented.

I suppose "heavily laden" is a relative term and subjective as well so your comment on this particular subject would be individualistic, and not necessarily a generalization.

If your doing your job and practicing you should be able to put your shots were there suppose to go!

We know that the national average for police in the last 30 years has been about 27% hit rates on the streets for rounds send downrange in gun fights. As their static range training requires at least a 70% hit rate to qualify, this suggests that on the streets where the pucker factor is extremely high, the dynamics of moving while trying to shoot and not be hit themselves comes into play, the hit rates suffer at about a 50% degradation for most officers over their static range skills.

So, we have to ask ourselves if the dynamics of the streets suggest you'll be moving to avoid getting hit while trying to fire, can we expect the same accuracy we see in our static range training on a line? The answer is no, we can't expect to hit with every round we send downrange just because we can on a target range.

Lets look at that again now-- we have 8 rounds in the gun to start, or less if we are going to carry a J frame 5 shot revo in 38 special. We can hit the X or COM all day long on the range, but if our own skills mirror the average of police officers our skills may allow us to get either 2-3 rounds out of an 8 shot auto or 1-2 rounds on threat with a 5 shot revo.

Couple the above with two or three BG's presenting an immediate threat [ which is becoming more prevalent based on reports of violent crimes, and you've quickly run out of ammo with either. Now we have to rely on the shots that do connect to be one shot stops even more. Again, based on known data from shootings pistol calibers aren't that potent at stopping BG's immediately even if we get good hit/s on them, they can still be viable threats for minutes putting rounds back at us before they succumb to their wounds inflicted on them by our own pistol ammo.

That puts us in a lot of danger statistically while they are bleeding out and that's if we have been able to punch enough holes in them to begin with, which is never guaranteed nor should be relied on. If we are relying on how we shoot on a static range [ target shooting for the most part ] our street fighting skills are not honed and that's been proven time and again on the streets in real gunfights by civilians and the LE community.

Another area that few recognize is that most will be shooting one handed while moving on the streets and yet they are want to practice two handed shooting primarily while standing still. In my own courses, at least 85% of the dozen skills are one handed shooting and include a considerable movement while doing so, just like we'll be shooting on the streets if we are smart. So with all that stated and out of the way--------

I'd ask you to rethink this statement If your doing your job and practicing you should be able to put your shots were there suppose to go! and tell us if you have really been doing your job and practicing "correctly" or just going through some form of target practice which has been getting people killed on the streets for a long time now.

The more RDS a person who doesn't practice has the more apt he is going to be to just pray and spray

See above---- As well as not practicing enough to begin with, are they practicing the correct skills sets that they'll employ on the streets and shooting one handed as they are likely going to be doing under duress and the dynamics of taking incoming or the potential of incoming? Practice in and of itself is no guarantee of successfully surviving the street encounter. That mindset will also get you killed PDQ, as too many have found out over the last 4 decades as well.

We also know that with very few exceptions, most people will be threat focused and instinctively understand they don't have the time to find their sights or bring the gun to eye level like they've done on the square range. Are you practiced in not looking at the gun and is your eye/hand coordination with your own sidearm good enough to shoot where you are looking?

If you aren't practicing these types of skills, your two handed front sight press at eye level practice might be left wanting for making hits in the streets also.

Gunfighting is a thinking mans game, not strictly how well you can punch paper on a square range and there are a lot of variables that will come into play for you to be as well prepared as you can be on the streets when you have to use your firearm to defend yourself.

There's more, but I think I've given you enough information to digest here for the time being. Ask any one of the students who just took the Howie in the Hills Threat Focused Training class if they think their old square range training would have been wanting in a gun battle.

Ask them if they think less rounds available without a reload is better or more rounds on tap before having to make a reload is better as well. My glock 17 doesn't weigh me down at all and I carry it in 118+ degree heat all summer out here.

Brownie
 
#15 ·
Concur.


Shot placement is king.

Body mass and pelvic region. Destroy a pelvic bone (or jewels) and the biggest person ain't gettin' up. The head is too easy to miss in stressful flight or fright scenarios. Almost any caliber can achieve this scenario.

I get nauseated just thinking of a pelvic hit :shudder
 
#16 ·
I believe that there is good reason to own and carry a single stack 9mm. Probably the biggest reason I can come up with is for pocket carry. The second reason is because of hand size.

However I do not believe I will ever have one in my arsenal. My reason is not enough bullets! Brownies post above is a much more eloquent explanation than I could give for the not enough bullets statement.

I personally carry a Glock 26. 12 rounds in mag (+2 extension) and 1 in the pipe. I also carry a spare G19 mag with 15 rounds in it. This hides easily on my not so slim body. I'm currently planning on purchasing a G19 and I'll see how well I can conceal that. If I can I will be upgrading to the G19 as my edc.

Combine lots of bullets with some real training and you just might live through an encounter.
 
#17 ·
single stacks

If you can pack a G17, great, but a gun that size will not fit into everyone's hand or everyone's mode of dress. It boils down to having a gun of the size and type that one will actually be able to carry in their daily life and that you can shoot. Folks with small hands might have trouble wrapping their hand around what is usually a thick grip on a double stack handgun.

I prefer to carry my G19, whenever possible, but in the office or gym, it is my LCP slipped in a pocket. May be small and only have 7 rds, BUT it is a gun and I have it, serves my better than my Glock in the safe. Just my .02.
 
#18 ·
9mm kurtz count?

if 9mm kurtz counts ( .380) then heck yah I carry a PPK/s walther (not S&W) with a extra mag. nice, little and concealable
I used to carry a 1951 Beretta the grandfather to the 92F, its a single stack I have a spare mag for that, also steel frame though and it heavier than my sig P-228 which I prefer

sprat
 
#19 · (Edited)
It boils down to having a gun of the size and type that one will actually be able to carry in their daily life and that you can shoot.

SASS20485, I think I pretty much covered the above in my previous post below hopefully but you are correct on both counts, shootability and carry ability [ discretely concealability based on dress code ] are two most important considerations. Good thought process.

As Shoot_First mentioned in his post, a single stack 9mm like the SA EMP may fit a person better who has small hands/short fingers due to it's reduced length of pull [ the distance between the front strap and back strap ]. As well, the 9mm is considered easier to control [ recoil ] than a more potent cartridge like the 40S+W, the 357SIG, 357 magnum, lightweight 38 5 shot revos, etc.

Understanding that recoil is a subjective subject, we also know from experience that many people who carry a handgun just don't have enough training/experience, let alone practice often enough with their firearm to become comfortable with the larger calibers which tend to produce/generate more recoil impulse into the shooters hand/s.


If there's a physical issue with carrying a larger gun, that's different than ECHOONE's idea that "A CW should not only be easily concealed but light weight not heavily laden down by ammo"

Brownie
 
#20 ·
I carry my Kel-tec PF9 about 80% of the time. The only reason I carry it over my Glock 19 is because I can conceal it so easily. I can wear a long T- shirt with an OWB holster and it disappears. The PF-9 is so light that it's like not even having anything on my belt. When my attire permits I carry the G-19 the other 20& for the added firepower. If I didn't have the PF-9 I wouldn't carry all of the time.

Will
 
#21 ·
hi cap

I certainly agree with Brownie on having more rds is better, as should you get in an actual gunfight, you'll be moving while one handed shooting and your hit ratio will be far less than what is it when confronting a stationary paper target that is not shooting back using your 2 handed stance and front sight. Brownie made it quite clear those tactics won't keep you alive long on the street. I'm a big believer now in what Brownie taught and demonstrated in his recent Threat Focused class. It was easy to run through a 10 rds mag real quick. Changed my thoughts and I switched from my G26 to my G19 for my EDC ( when conditions allow ) due to the extra 5 rds the G19 will hold. It conceals nearly as easily.
 
#22 ·
Interesting thread, I haven't run into this one before.

The way I see it, I'm amongst the vast majority of people that can't train constantly using realistic scenarios. In far too many cases, they get a chance to shoot in a controlled location (a range) with optimal conditions (weather, lighting, protective gear, etc.) which in no way will mirror what will really happen when the SHTF.

That being said, your chances of getting steel on target (lead, copper, whatever :laughing) goes significantly down, especially with a multiple threat scenario. Having a large initial round capacity in that magazine helps skew the odds towards the defender.

That reminds me, I really need to save up that money to A) Get in Brownies' next class and B) Upgrade from my Sigma to an XD(M) in 9MM.... ;)
 
#23 ·
In my opinion the first requirement of a self defense handgun is that it must fit the users hand. If it doesn't fit it's going to be hard to shoot.

For some this limit's choices to a single stack 9mm. However loaded with the proper ammunition I do not find this a detriment.
 
#24 ·
Perhaps I should look into a single stack 9mm... Depending on a combination of the weather and the perceived threat level (no flames please).... I carry either a G17 OWB with jacket, a G26 Ankle, or a diminutive NAA .22WMR in a pocket holster.

As others have said a mouse gun in the pocket beats a cannon in the safe every time. I only get about two months where a jacket doesn't look odd, 6 for long pants (except when I'm on my V-Rod)... The rest of the year it's shorts and a t shirt.... Pocket carry is all available to me then (I can't stand an untucked shirt).

My Dad carries a LCP and a Kel-Tec, both in .380 Perhaps I should look at the Kel-Tec in 9mm. Can't afford a Kahr!
 
#25 ·
Brownie, As others have noted, small hands and lower recoil than the larger calibers might be a reason for many. For me personally, I would not want the single stack 9MM. I can conceal a single stack .45 and that is what I carry 99% of the time. If I were to go to 9mm, I would want a firearm that would carry more rounds than a single stack 9. To me, one of the benefits of a 9mm over a larger caliber is the ability to carry more rounds in a similar size weapon. Another, for some, is the recoil issue.

As to your last quesion, "IF" I were to consider a single stack 9, it would be the Springfield EMP as I am a huge fan of the 1911 style firearms.
 
#26 ·
Well, I have a Glock 17 and a Kel-Tec PF-9 7+1.

Truth is, I wish something like the Kel-Tec had been available when I worked the streets.

I actually started to look at a Kel-Tec P3-AT .380 but opted for the more powerful PF-9 when I saw how concealable it was. I looked at the Kel-Tecs on advice from several LEO friends who said it was becoming very popular amoung them.

Good review here................http://www.policemag.com/Articles/2007/12/Kel-Tec-PF-9-Pistol.aspx
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top