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Thread: Online CCW classes

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Shadow's Avatar
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    Online CCW classes

    Wow... as though the quickie gun show ccw classes aren't bad enough, now you can take your class online... Unbelievable!!

    http://www.concealed-carry.net/index.php

    "The Internet’s FIRST online firearms safety class meets Virginia law to qualify you for obtaining a Concealed Handgun Permit, on your schedule and at your convenience. No more waiting for the next class… the next class is just one click away!"

    "The instruction consists of 65 minutes of our time-tested firearms safety class, followed by a 20 question test. Upon completion, simply print out your certificate and take it to your local circuit court to proceed with your application."

  2. #2
    Senior Member Patriot Prepper's Avatar
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    LOL - what's next a virtual shooting range where you can show proficiency with your weapon on-line?
    Expect the Best - Prepare for the Worst
    Keep on Prepping

  3. #3
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    Stuff like this might be enough to risk reciprocity status.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by gderf View Post
    Stuff like this might be enough to risk reciprocity status.
    In Florida? No, since there is no requirement to take a 'class' here in the first place.

    I am not a lawyer!
    My opinion/comments are strictly that: My own, well researched, opinions.
    If anyone needs legal advise, please seek out a qualified attorney.
    Do not rely on my, or anyone Else's, opinions to keep you out of legal trouble.

  5. #5
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    There is a requirement in FL that the applicant has demonstrated competency with a firearm. You can't get that in a classroom or online.

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member 7kings's Avatar
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    Actually, Maryland has been doing this for a while now...
    - Brian

    "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." - Captain Malcolm Reynolds

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by gderf View Post
    There is a requirement in FL that the applicant has demonstrated competency with a firearm. You can't get that in a classroom or online.
    There is no requirement to actually fire a pistol. In fact any NRA safety class qualifies, including this one:
    Name : NRA Home Firearm Safety Course

    Short Description : Non-shooting course and teaches students the basic knowledge, skills, and to explain the attitude necessary for the safe handling and storage of firearms and ammunition in the home.

    I am not a lawyer!
    My opinion/comments are strictly that: My own, well researched, opinions.
    If anyone needs legal advise, please seek out a qualified attorney.
    Do not rely on my, or anyone Else's, opinions to keep you out of legal trouble.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by brboyer View Post
    There is no requirement to actually fire a pistol. In fact any NRA safety class qualifies, including this one:
    Name : NRA Home Firearm Safety Course

    Short Description : Non-shooting course and teaches students the basic knowledge, skills, and to explain the attitude necessary for the safe handling and storage of firearms and ammunition in the home.
    It's not about the course, it's about the record keeping requirements imposed on the instructors.

    The example you cite qualifies under FS 790.06 (h) subparagraph 2. "Completion of any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;"

    However, further in the statute:

    "any person who conducts a course pursuant to subparagraph 2., subparagraph 3., or subparagraph 7., or who, as an instructor, attests to the completion of such courses, must maintain records certifying that he or she observed the student safely handle and discharge the firearm;"

    As an NRA Certified Instructor residing in Florida, I (and all other certified instructors residing in the state) received a cautionary warning letter from NRA that any course I give in satisfaction of the requirements of FS 790.06 must have a live firing requirement using full power fixed ammunition, that the use of Air Soft guns or other similar non-firearm devices does not meet the live firing requirement, and that my credentials would be revoked if I provided any affidavit to the licensing authority stating that my course met the requirements of FS 790.06 when in fact no live firing occurred in my presence and/or that I have not retained and can not produce records of proof of same.

    I no longer offer such courses, but not for this reason alone. Liability concerns and the cost of insuring myself against even obviously frivolous law suits makes this no longer feasible.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by gderf View Post
    It's not about the course, it's about the record keeping requirements imposed on the instructors.

    The example you cite qualifies under FS 790.06 (h) subparagraph 2. "Completion of any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;"

    However, further in the statute:

    "any person who conducts a course pursuant to subparagraph 2., subparagraph 3., or subparagraph 7., or who, as an instructor, attests to the completion of such courses, must maintain records certifying that he or she observed the student safely handle and discharge the firearm;"

    As an NRA Certified Instructor residing in Florida, I (and all other certified instructors residing in the state) received a cautionary warning letter from NRA that any course I give in satisfaction of the requirements of FS 790.06 must have a live firing requirement using full power fixed ammunition, that the use of Air Soft guns or other similar non-firearm devices does not meet the live firing requirement, and that my credentials would be revoked if I provided any affidavit to the licensing authority stating that my course met the requirements of FS 790.06 when in fact no live firing occurred in my presence and/or that I have not retained and can not produce records of proof of same.

    I no longer offer such courses, but not for this reason alone. Liability concerns and the cost of insuring myself against even obviously frivolous law suits makes this no longer feasible.
    The problem we have is that there is no legal requirement to discharge a firearm to obtain a CWFL, but instructors are 'required' to keep such records..... and then there is no provision for a violation of this record keeping requirement.

    The legal requirement is to show competence, not discharge and is specifically outlined in 790.06(2)(h) 1-7.
    The record keeping 'requirement' is unconstitutionally vague and capricious as it 'requires' instructors to keep records of events that they are not required to observe; provides no punishment for failure to keep such records; offers no time limit on their retention; nor any requirement to make such records available to any party, including the DOACS.

    Any release of such records could only be compelled via a search warrant issued on probable cause affidavit describing alleged criminal behavior - what crime would that be?

    Florida Carry, Inc. has CWFL 'training' on our radar, but there are other more pressing matters to deal with first.

    I am not a lawyer!
    My opinion/comments are strictly that: My own, well researched, opinions.
    If anyone needs legal advise, please seek out a qualified attorney.
    Do not rely on my, or anyone Else's, opinions to keep you out of legal trouble.

  10. #10
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    I am not a lawyer, and I do not give legal advice.

    I am an NRA Certified Instructor who isn't especially interested in having my credentials revoked.

    If and when you become an NRA Certified Instructor, please feel free to risk your credentials to whatever extent you see fit.

    If and when you become a lawyer, please feel free to give legal advice to credentialed instructors and others as you see fit, up to and including risking your license to practice law.

    Just for the record now....

    Are you a licensed attorney, NRA Certified Instructor, or just the next armchair lawyer in here giving legal advice?

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