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Gun in car?

13K views 57 replies 22 participants last post by  MountainGator 
#1 ·
I have some questions hopefully someone can help me out. All reply's welcome. Regarding the Florida concealed gun law. Is it legal to be 18 and carry a gun under the passenger front seat of your car? Does it need to be in a case or no? According to Section 790.01 you can have a concealed firearm in your car as long as it is not easily accessible. So having it under the passenger front seat of your car is that ok? Thanks
 
#3 ·
(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.
"Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.
"Readily accessible for immediate use" means that a firearm or other weapon is carried on the person or within such close proximity and in such a manner that it can be retrieved and used as easily and quickly as if carried on the person.
So if you put it in a locking type holster: thumb strap, Serpa. etc. you can put it anywhere, even openly displayed on the passenger seat. Or put it in something that has a lid or zipper.
 
#4 ·
+1, I agree with brboyer. Under the seat IMHO is still within close proximity to you, so I would stick with the securely encased which would require a snap or in a box, glove box, zippered case....etc.
 
#5 ·
I don’t mean to insult your knowledge sir, but it clearly says that it needs to be conceal even if is in a holster or securely encase I don’t know, but I may be wrong, but anyway if i am I dont think OC is a good idea anyway.

(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a :rolleyes:concealed:rolleyes: firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use.
 
#6 ·
I don’t mean to insult your knowledge sir, but it clearly says that it needs to be conceal even if is in a holster or securely encase I don’t know, but I may be wrong, but anyway if i am I dont think OC is a good idea anyway.

(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a :rolleyes:concealed:rolleyes: firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use.

Your not insulting my intelegence, buy you are incorrect.

790.25 790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.--

(3) LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053 (open carry law) and 790.06 (law about having to be licensed to carry a firearm) do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:

(l) A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person's manual possession;
 
#7 ·
If you snap holster it and cover it with a towel or newspaper or whatever it is now concealed and legal..If you put it under your seat and it slides out of reach you could be dead...If you're going to carry it keep it available. Otherwise, why bother?...just my $.02
 
#8 ·
#9 ·
Under the seat

Thanks to the FHP officer that was kind enough not to take me to jail, under the seat or stuffed between the seats is a big no-no. It was explained to me that under the seat or stuffed in the seat is illegal concealment. I'm not too sure what that means but I don't want the hassle of taking it to court. And as for leaving it on the seat, couldn't that be considered "open carry" or "brandishing"?

I have read the FL Statutes, and re read them and I am still not sure. I would greatly appreciate some input by others of greater intelligence, which is just about everyone. I have a CWP but I also don't want to give bad advice later on. And I quote, "Knowing Is Half the Battle" (G.I. JOE for the younger generations), and I hate being dumb. :confused:
 
#10 ·
And as for leaving it on the seat, couldn't that be considered "open carry" or "brandishing"?

I have read the FL Statutes, and re read them and I am still not sure. I would greatly appreciate some input by others of greater intelligence, which is just about everyone. I have a CWP but I also don't want to give bad advice later on. And I quote, "Knowing Is Half the Battle" (G.I. JOE for the younger generations), and I hate being dumb. :confused:
Not sure what you are confused about. Read my post #6 above, it states it is legal to have a firearm openly displayed as long as it meets the requirements of being "securely encased" which if you have a holster with a thumb break or snap, then you can have the firearm in open view.

If there is a specific question or scenario then go ahead and ask.
 
#11 ·
Gun in Car?

Re: The Section 790.01 Florida Gun Law. Can someone tell me the difference of a concealed firearm being under the passenger front seat or being in the glove box. They are both concealed and both out of the way as easy accessible. So is it ok to have it under the passenger front seat? Or if not please explain why and what difference that makes compared to a glove box or center console? Thanks and all reply's welcomed.
 
#12 ·
Once the firearm is in the interior of the vehicle it is CONCEALED.

790.25

"......... firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. ..............."



Encased or not if the firearm is as accessible as if it were secured upon your person then you can be in some serious trouble. Under the seat or stuck between the seats would be considered by most to be "accessible for immediate use"
 
#13 ·
Under the seat or stuck between the seats would be considered by most to be "accessible for immediate use"
+1000000 :thumsup

If you want it under the seat then put it in a holster with a snap. Problem solved.

by the way, being concealed in the vehicle is not relivent. It does not have to be concealed. I pointed that out in my post #6 above.
 
#14 · (Edited)
without a CCW, you need to have it "securely encased" or "not readily accessible".

Now, I don't know about your vehicle, but if I put a handgun under my seat, it would end up under my break or gas pedal the first time I had to do a hard stop. A loaded firearm rattling around with me stomping on it is one of the last things I want to be around - glock or not.

Got a center console? Great place for it.

If not, put it in the glove box. Just don't keep your insurance and registration there too. It kinda makes the officer nervous when you reach over to open your glove box to get you papers and a .357 falls out into your hand.

****
At 18 you may legally own a gun, but you may not legally purchase a handgun. One of the first things a LEO is going to do is grill you about it if he sees it.

At 18, I did a lot of dumb things that will get you into a lot more trouble today than they did back then. But doing something stupid with a gun just ups the ante a whole bunch. Just sayin'.
 
#15 · (Edited)
At 18 you may legally own a gun, but you may not legally purchase a handgun.
Not quite accurate, at 18 you may not purchase a handgun from a federally licensed dealer however it's perfectly legal to purchase from an individual.


+1000000 :thumsup

If you want it under the seat then put it in a holster with a snap. Problem solved.

by the way, being concealed in the vehicle is not relivent. It does not have to be concealed. I pointed that out in my post #6 above.
Under the seat even in a holster with a retention device can still be just as accessible as if the same holstered firearm were on your belt. Hench it's a location that may well end with you being charged.

As to the concealment issue I agree, just trying to clarify for folk as to the why. Once the sidearm is placed in the vehicle it is Concealed as it is beyond the site of the ordinary person. 790.25(5) provides an exclusion to 790.01 provided it's conditions are met. Rather it is concealed from sight within the vehicle is immaterial.
 
#16 ·
Chucky, do you have a Florida Concealed Weapon and Firearm License?

If so, then according to: 790.001 Definitions.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/SEC001.HTM&Title=->2009->Ch0790->Section%20001#0790.001

The 2009 Florida Statutes

Title XLVI
CRIMES Chapter 790
WEAPONS AND FIREARMS

790.001 Definitions. --As used in this chapter, except where the context otherwise requires:

(2) "Concealed firearm" means any firearm, as defined in subsection (6), which is carried on or about a person in such a manner as to conceal the firearm from the ordinary sight of another person.

And according to 790.01 Carrying concealed weapons

http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/Sec01.HTM

790.01 Carrying concealed weapons.--

(1) Except as provided in subsection (4), a person who carries a concealed weapon or electric weapon or device on or about his or her person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(2) A person who carries a concealed firearm on or about his or her person commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(3) This section does not apply to a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon or a concealed firearm pursuant to the provisions of s. 790.06.
If you have a Flordia Concealed Weapon and Firearm license then your firearm only needs to be concealed, it does not need to be " securely encased " or " not readily accessible for immediate use " but must be concealed " from the ordinary sight of another person. "
 
#18 ·
Chucky, do you have a Florida Concealed Weapon and Firearm License?

If so, then according to: 790.001 Definitions.




And according to 790.01 Carrying concealed weapons



If you have a Flordia Concealed Weapon and Firearm license then your firearm only needs to be concealed, it does not need to be " securely encased " or " not readily accessible for immediate use " but must be concealed " from the ordinary sight of another person. "

Hey TS I think you mistakenly missed that the question was if an 18 year old could do this. If you are 18 then you are too young to be eligible for a CWFL.
 
#25 · (Edited)
TampaSsgt I under stand what your saying.

What I'm trying to get across is that having the sidearm in a secured holster in and of itself does not automatically make you safe from arrest and prosecution. While the Statute is poorly worded and uses or instead of and it does reference both securely encased and not accessible for immediate use.

790.001 Definitions

(16) "Readily accessible for immediate use" means that a firearm or other weapon is carried on the person or within such close proximity and in such a manner that it can be retrieved and used as easily and quickly as if carried on the person.


My point is that having a holstered sidearm in such close proximity as to be accessible as if it were on your person MAY get you a trip to jail, and a free lesson in the court system. ie: Having a holstered firearm on your ankle vs. a holstered firearm on the floor next to your foot (under the seat) or Having a holstered firearm on your belt vs having a holstered firearm on the seat against your thigh. I suggest that the position within the vehicle that the firearm occupies even though holstered may still be interpenetrated as a violation of the statute.

I've found no precedent on it either way.

Ensor v. State sets precedent for what the Courts consider "Concealed from ordinary sight"

790.001 Definitions.--

(2) "Concealed firearm" means any firearm, as defined in subsection (6), which is carried on or about a person in such a manner as to conceal the firearm from the ordinary sight of another person.
 
#26 ·
TampaSsgt I under stand what your saying.

What I'm trying to get across is that having the sidearm in a secured holster in and of itself does not automatically make you safe from arrest and prosecution. While the Statute is poorly worded and uses or instead of and it does reference both securely encased and not accessible for immediate use.
The statute says: is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use.

You can not change the statute so that it says "and" instead of "or". By using the word "or", it means that one of the items in the list either "securely encased", or "not readily accessible for immediate use" must be met. Both of them do not need to be met. It does not matter that both are mentioned in the sentence. You may feel the statute is poorly written, but it says what it says and it is what it is.
 
#35 ·
:popcorn
 
#37 · (Edited)
This is not meant as a flame or a personal attack but this thread shows the danger of reading cases from sources other than the primary ones used by attorneys. Ensor has been distinguished many times. A search on Westlaw or Lexis shows this. Also Ensor is not about secure encasement, its about concealment.

Secondly Ensor is not based on the current statute which was amended in part because of Ensor.

As for the cite to the Ashley v. State, 619, So.2d 294 (Fla.1993), The language that was cited to was the Court's discussion of a conflict case, Amaya v. State, 580 So.2d 885 Fla.App. 2 Dist.,1991, where again the issue was concealment, and ready accessibility not secure encasement. There is no language in the Amaya decision or the FL SC's opinion that the gun in Amaya was securely encased.

Please do not cite to or quote cases that have not been verified as current and not overturned. It does a disservice to all.

A gun in a car is not automatically considered a concealed weapon in FL. Dorelus v. State, 747 So.2d 368 (Fla. 1999).

There are three important factors to this analysis for the OP.
1. Is it concealed? This will always be tricky and fact specific. I assume a gun in my car is concealed because it makes the rest easy to comply with. The open carry prohibition does not apply if you are in a car.

2. Is it securely encased? This is very easy in FL based on the statute. In a snapped holster or something I have to lift the lid on is good enough. If it is securely encased I do not have to worry about it being immediately accessible for use, because securely encased means it isn't. Other not immediately ready and accessible cases discuss whether the gun is loaded and where the ammo is in relation to the gun, usually because the gun was not securely encased. These cases are confusing and contradictory. I am not going to do a full analysis of that issue without pay. Bottom line, doesn't matter how quick I can get it out to use. If you use the statute's definition to determine securely encased it is not immediately accessible.

3. Is it on the person? Using this provision to carry in a car without a license, it cannot be on you, or I would argue touching you. Where can it be? The statutes are pretty clear about Glove boxes and consoles. There is also the Gemmill case where a box with a lid on it (containing a gun) was wedged between the driver and passenger seat.

To the OP, is under the seat ok? Even securely encased you get into trouble for on you. There is no reported case I am aware of which says that securely encased firearm under your seat is on you. Not being your attorney and not giving specific legal advice on this board I cannot answer the question as to what might be determined in your case if stopped. For discussion purposes, under the seat is most likely not on you. From a SD standpoint, can you get to it there as readily as in your closed center console or glove box, if not why put it there? Under a seat is just a bad idea for a lot of reasons. The is it on you question is the least of them.

From an attorney who does car accidents- NEVER HAVE ANYTHING, ESPECIALLY A FIREARM, EVEN IN A HOLSTER, WHERE IT WILL FLY AROUND YOUR CAR IN A WRECK.

EDIT The pre 1980 cases cited in this thread are dangerous. The changes in 790 since then make any pre 80's case of questionable value and they must be carefully considered.
 
#46 ·
From an attorney who does car accidents- NEVER HAVE ANYTHING, ESPECIALLY A FIREARM, EVEN IN A HOLSTER, WHERE IT WILL FLY AROUND YOUR CAR IN A WRECK.
GREAT POINT! :clap
 
#38 ·
fridaddy, thank you for your input on this thread. It is much appreciated that you took the time to provide a thorough explanation. :drinks
 
#39 ·
Thank you, fridaddy for the explanation this thread had us new guys heads spinning!! :banghead2:banghead2
 
#40 ·
Hi all, new user here.

This seemed as close to a good thread to ask this without starting a whole new one.

I'm new to CCW, don't even actually have the license yet, waiting on processing.

Anyway, what about leaving your firearm in a vehicle all day? Is this a problem in the hot Florida sun?

It makes me uneasy to leave a loaded firearm in my console all day long. Although I'm lucky enough that my employer is a gun owner and has no problems with me bringing my firearm inside, but at other times when I will not be able to carry it into a location with me, what is the general consensus on leaving a firearm in a hot vehicle?
 
#41 ·
Welcome to the neighborhood! :thumsup

I see no problem leaving your handgun in your vehicle all day, even with the Florida heat.

I would recommend that you keep it out of direct sunlight ( and public view as well ) in something such as a gun case, or in the glove compartment or center counsole of your vehicle.

It will not get hot enough in your vehicle to cause any damage to the firearm or ammunition.
 
#44 ·
Gun in Car?

Being under the passenger front seat NOT the driver's front seat would that be considered Not readily accessible? And Not in a holster or in a closed case is that ok? Also being 18 not having a license is that ok? Also I read a felony in the 3rd degree what are the consequences of that does anyone know? All reply's welcomed.
 
#45 ·
Being under the passenger front seat NOT the driver's front seat would that be considered Not readily accessible? And Not in a holster or in a closed case is that ok? Also being 18 not having a license is that ok? Also I read a felony in the 3rd degree what are the consequences of that does anyone know? All reply's welcomed.
Chucky,

They point has been made several times re your post that legal or not under the seat is a bad idea. The easiest way to be legal in a car without a CCW is to have it in the glove box or a closed console, or in a snapped holster somewhere in the car that is secure from flying around and not on you. Yes an 18 year old can have a gun in the car under the private conveyance exception without a CCW.
 
#47 ·
What about keeping a loaded firearm in a snap holster in a seat back pocket? The glove compartment and center console in my truck will not accommodate my firearm in a holster. I do not have my CWL yet but there are a few instances where I would like to take my firearm with me in the vehicle. My passenger seat has a big pocket behind it that would be an excellent place to store my firearm while traveling. Would this be legal if the firearm is in a snap holster and loaded?

Thanks
 
#48 ·
Thanks for the clarification

My 19 year old daughter has been asking me for months now if it's ok for her to take one of my pistols with her when she goes to classes. Most of her classes are at night at HCC. After reading this thread, I can tell that 99% of the "experts" are as confused about the legalities of transporting a gun as I am. One person wrote that the law is "poorly worded" because it used the word "or" instead of "and". With all due respect, I would disagree. The use of the word "or" instead of "and" is a very important distinction in the context of this discussion. As another writer pointed out, it means you only have to be in compliance with one or the other provisions of the statute.

In any event. After the lawyer chimed in, I think I finally understand the legalities concerning my daughter using one of my pistols to protect herself while she travels back and forth to school at night. As long as she keeps it in a snapped holster, or even in her zipped purse on the seat next to her, she's legal. Thank you to the lawyers!

My only problem now is, how do I keep her out of jail if she gets caught with the gun in her purse as she's traveling to/from her car!!? I don't think there's a provision in the law for that part of the scenario. Is there?

Seems to me that they didn't think that one all the way through. How can anyone under 21 (and unable to obtain a CWL) who's legally able to carry and conceal a weapon in their motor vehicle; how can they legally GET that weapon to/from their vehicle?!

Seems like you have to break the law in order to follow it.:banghead2
 
#49 ·
Unless she lives in a single family home and parks on the property not in the street, it is pretty hard to get the gun from the house to the car.
 
#53 ·
Wow, Red Lodge, MT?

Always wanted to go to Yellowstone and me and my brother finally did in June. We drove the Beartooth with intentions of going all the way to Red Lodge, but ran into rapidly declining visibility and turned back. Very cool, though - still was a winter wonderland up there!
 
#55 ·
June can be "Very Iffy" "up on the Pass." How far did you get? It is very spectacular, 'course the whole area is in our opinion. We love it there but enjoy the late fall and early winter here in Gainesville.
 
#57 ·
Hard to say for sure, but if West Summit is clearly marked, we must not have gotten quite that far, but must have been close. So not all that far unfortunately. It was the week of June 6-13, one of the last few days. It had been closed the first few days when we got there, then reopened and we tried it but it just got real sketchy after a while.
 
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